Thanks Shirl! I spent the early part of my climb into the children's rights field by transferring what I considered values worth defending into that world, many of them are what are called 'British values', but deocracy has seen better times. I have been either in conflict countries during violence, twice though front line but in both cases to see the situation of street children in war torn cities. Incidentally, I refused to have armed escorts because they are a provocation and undermine trust on the part of the kids. That was nothing to do with pacifism or its like, although I was brought up in a pacifist household as the son of an ex-soldier who became one a movement of veterans against war after his wartime experience and the 10 years he stayed in after 1945. So there's a mix of it all, however I might put it that I have done my bit for humanity rather than any country in particular.
Anything wrong with that? I'll still go for Cameron's legal throat though...
it's strange how, without ever meeting anyone on this site, you can usually warm to some people and even like them, yet others get really up your nose, init?
come on boys - there’s more than one way to skin a rabbit, we here have all done our bit for our country, be it in the army, or any other form of work!, not to mention the innocent British civilians who have just lost their lives also, and they didn’t choose to be in the middle of a conflict, whether political, military or terrorist.
Ex-pat does Not mean ex-patriotic! why do you think so many of us over the years have been campaigning for supporting the drive for democratic and human right a British Nationals, to get the vote for all British expats. it’s then their choice whether to use it or not, but they should have that choice!
Political,personal and public tolerance is something we should all be aiming for. in other words, do unto others as you would be done by! I’m not sorry for all the cliches, it’s a Sunday, so I’d better shut up before I start quoting from the Bible.
"people like you" ?
Yes, you said it all Keith..
You should be proud of what you've achieved just as I am - we all have roles to play in life. I chose not to serve my country in the Armed Forces but I feel just as valuable a member of society as you obviously, and quite rightly do.
All men are equal, though I suppose you believe some are more equal than others ?
Oh dear, not the "I served and fought for my country etc" line !
With respect, I assume you volunteered for military service ? Nobody made you sign up...
Keith, you are assuming that IF the UK leaves the EU you will have to leave France or indeed you rights in France will will drastically changed.! The French government would be mad to kick out expat Brits what with the incredible wealth they bring to their country. The biggest change for you would be regarding health matters where you would probably need to get 100% private cover. Other than that I shouldn't worry too much.
Where's the problem with becoming French by naturalisation ? As you say, you will never be accepted as one of them in any case just like now so where's the problem ?
yes, I accept that point of view Brian, more logic in your perspective than mine, I admit! like you, my life is not affected by what my UK constituency votes for locally in terms of local council affairs, but I can be and was nationally in May and I’m not proud of the fact that I am represented by the only UKIP MP, Parliament lays claims to.
Of course I still have to be registered to vote somewhere for whatever UK national election and the EU Referendum or I don’t make my vote count. I am registered to vote locally here in my Village.
if online voting in all elections was possible, then perhaps we should be registered under our original NHS No. - not N I number, because that is not allocated till you start work in UK. That then begs the question, what if children of British parents are born abroad and their birth is registered in that country, not the UK
that then makes them a different Nationality, that was always my understanding when I was much younger, country of birth 1st, followed by nationality of parents, giving them dual or triple nationality! that’s why I say I am half Scottish, born in England of English mother and Scottish father. but currently am supposed to think of myself as being British
as you say, European recognition and voting rights should by applicable to all born, living and voting in Europe.
Then what do we do with all the migrants who are settling or being accepted now into the various European countries, is it just their place of residence that gives them that right - which brings us back to square one, as to last place of residence in UK allowing me to vote there for 15 years since leaving it, provided I have maintained my right to vote by continually completing and returning an overseas “registration form” giving me the right to vote!
if I come back to your point about the 3 years, look at the lack of interest by more recently arrived expats, just in all these SFN discussions, because they are busy settling in, enjoying their new lives, renovating, and let’s face it, registering to vote from abroad is going to be the last thing on their minds, well most of them it seems - left there, doesn’t affect me, seems to be the prevailing attitude, except now the UK EU referendum and how the decision may affect them, in terms of how France will react in relation to expats, or losing their own currently protected UK rights.
Certainly I agree with the last part of your answer!
Two different things Shirley. I want votes in the country we live in. Sure we can change nationality but the circumstances make take us elsewhere, so having a 'transferable' vote within the EU might be good. Nationality, well ultimately many people return 'home' but that does not exclude having political representation where they live until that point in time. The 15 years thing is insidious but then so is excluding non-residents in a referendum anyway. I accept that something like three years qualifying time resident may be justifiable, including for people going back to their country of origin, but putting people in a no vote situation at all is undemocratic. I made a democratic choice and deregistered because the MP who sits on a large majority with a snowball in hell's chance of being replaced for a fair few years was rude to me and I am stuck with that constituency or nothing. If I am told that I am more or less guilty of the crime of living abroad, then I do not want that MP, constituency or anything else. It was also a very short, temporary part of my life, so why would I wish to vote in that constituency. I live here and prefer to do so here. What I do not want is to lose particular rights including the EU and local voting rights because the cock-eyed Europhobes do not like being part of a large union of nations in which we share many rights and, above all else, the longest spell of peace between nations for many centuries. For that alone I would be happy to go to law.
last week I received by AirMail, my Overseas Declarational Renewal from my Constituency in UK, now completed and posted, so at least I will be able to vote in Referendum, and it will be a YES from me unless something really drastic happens there or here!
and bravely done so Keith, I didn’t physically, am 1st generation post-war baby boomers, so that’s why I want to fight now on the political and human rights front. coward that I am it’s safer, and like all living Brits have at 2 paternal family generations who fought in 2 World Wars, who like you were fighting were fighting for their country. Sadly, the current political situation in UK/EU, looks like it’s slowly creating its own Divide and Rule with the migrant problem and possible in the not too distant future,Eurozone breakup.
yes, having looked at the form now, we have to start in UK and make our case there with the Government, which if I have read the form correctly then means, if we lose our case in the UK, then we can take it to to the ECHR! but imagine the lengthy time process involved on both cases, by then the Referendumwill nhave taken place!
it’s already been said months ago, that even if the UK did start the process of pulling out, that would take 2/3 years, by then there will have been another General Election, with a possibilities/probability that Labour Will win!
Add to that, the fact that amongst politicians,
Labour, SNP, and Lib Dems want to STAY IN Europe, as of course do many industrialists and business people. I think they plus the the number of Voters who will vote to Stay in, will far outweigh the few Tory anti-EU and UKIP politicians who wNt to come out.
There already are some other European political organizations for expats and others who are on the side of the UK staying in.
if Brian Cave reads this, I hope he can remind us all of who those organizations are and put links to their sites.
the In/Out issue, is now a partially separate one from from the rights of all expats to have the Vote for Life, not just 15 years! that right is more for domestic policy and how it would affect us and our UK resident families personally.
so I understand Brian Milne and others perspective on that issue, if they have taken on French or other nationalities, based on country of permanent residence and have children born in the country, but the bottom line is we all have British passports, are British Nationals, so must defend ourselves against exclusion.
My one last question though is, for those not interested in supporting the 15 year Campaign for UK lifetime votes then why do they care about the UK staying in Europe?
Yes actually. That’s why I understand the difficulties of making the transition to civilian life.
Precisely as Barbara says. I have worked in the human rights world for a long time, thus 'collided' with civil and private law many times as well. One thing I have learned is that there is no such thing as no case in civil law, which is what this would be, since the onus is on the claimant to prove the case in civil law. If I thought that call-me-Dave was responsible for disrupting my life then I would throw my hat in and have a go. I would also do everything to get as many people to do the same, use journalists of my acquaintance to write on the fact that people are doing it. If nothing else I would ensure my displeasure is known and contributing to inconveniencing a politician who carries the buck for inconveniencing me. So, I am not sure what Keith's time in the army has to do with anything but he would certainly be taking responsibility for his actions if he start a legal action against Cameron. Or?
But Mr Cameron wants to stay in Europe. However he has said that he will listen to the electorate so the two things cannot be separated.
I think that the question yes or no was not the agenda.
It was about claiming compensation from Mr Cameron!
I think that perhaps you spent too long in the Army. In civilian life you have to take responsibility for your actions. Life would be so easy if we all had a crystal ball that worked? Presumably a large number of people will have to vote for leaving the EU before it actually happens; surely the blame will lie on their shoulders as much as on an individual politician who is actually prepared to listen to the views of the electorate. Good luck, I enjoy listening to your progress.
I have no vote either, so other forms of action are good by me.
to answer your Question i think its a NO! but im with you and the others!
of course the Gov could do what Tspsris did and igñore referendum.
all I can see at present is a breakup of the EU! or Cameron will get his way with negotiations if he goes back for some more! the immigration crisis is here now for Europe, they can’t ignore it, of course on a human level I feel desperately for them, but I wish someone would ask or tell the immigrants that are interviewed, that they may well end up less safe in UK, I see anarchy looming and notice that Nigel Farrage is noticeable by his absence as far as any political comment goes now!
having said all that, I am naive enough to think that because I’m well and truly ‘in system here’ via CPAM and CAF, for health reasons, the French wouldn’t just chuck me out or desert me! or would they?
Keith, I do believe I would join you in such an action. Above and beyond that, I would do all I humanly can to get other people to do the same.
Then you are the man to solve many problems.