Honi soit qui mal y pense is the watchword, Paul, if not Dieu et mon droit.
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Hmmm… - Andrew might be more interested in Le droit du Seigneur
@anon88169868 “Hmmm… - Andrew might be more interested in Le droit du Seigneur”
My thoughts exactly 
I can’t stand him personally, like the other three kids but has he actually committed an offence ?
Possibly - having sex with Ms Giuffre would not, prima facie have been illegal - all the reports suggest that she was 17 at the time of the alleged incident in London and thus over the age of consent not only there but also in New York a month later (AoC = 17 in New York State) or the Caribbean (AoC=16).
However if you argue that she was transported to those locations specifically for the pleasure of Andrew and/or other high flyers that puts a trafficking slant on things which might well mean he committed an offence (assuming he did sleep with her, of course, which he denies).
The thing that puzzles me is that, presumably, Andrew can afford competent advisers, the Palace certainly can - so if the current state of affairs is the best damage limitation that they can do what on Earth did he actually get up to?
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I watched and listened very carefully. What I heard was a man answering the questions put to him. What I did NOT hear was a “well-prepared scripted” reply to each and every question…so that is one good point in his favour in my book.
However, the way he came across to the general public has only pushed him further down into the pit as his manner of expressing himself is very poor (cold even) in my opinion.
(However, I used to work for a lovely man, well-educated, kind and generous, nothing bad in his character… yet he mostly came across as stiff and stilted when speaking in public - which could easily be mistaken for disdain and suchlike. Perhaps PAndrew has a similar problem.)
What I heard were a set of lame excuses - eating pizza, couldn’t sweat (unlikely) which did not really ring true.
Andrew does a lot of public speaking, though I agree that the interview was probably a new experience for him and the whole family can come across as pretty stilted and stiff at the best of times.
But if he is genuinely innocent he should have been able to come out of this better than he has done.
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It is much easier to be considered guilty than innocent as far as the public is concerned and more or less impossible to prove one’s innocence sufficiently for the public to accept.
This is my opinion on what I have seen over the years (re so many people/happenings) and does not mean that I am convinced of PA’s innocence… I am simply trying to keep a fairly open mind in the lack of any concrete evidence at this time.
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I’m all for keeping an open mind but he didn’t get the nicknames “Randy Andy” or “The Playboy Prince” for his regular choir attendance.
I actually feel sorry for him - not the current shambles but his whole life has been a bit of a disaster, hasn’t it?
Not only is Prince Andrew privileged , he was always rumoured to be his mothers favourite so privileged amongst the privileged. He was praised to high heavens after the Falklands and so probably came to see himself as untouchable, then reality bites. The Standard reckons that Prince Charles advised HRH to effectively sack Andrew to save the Royal Family
Andrew didn’t do himself any favours. The only way he could have made things worse would have been to say that he maintained his relationship with Epstein because he didn’t want to appear antisemitic!
But there are many unanswered questions and I think we should be careful not to rush to judgment. Despite the fact that the media have gleefully jumped on this story, the only thing we know for certain is that Andrew was a guest of Epstein who, at that time, had served his sentence for previous crimes. A misjudgment that Andrew has acknowledged.
As to whether Andrew had sex with Virginia Giuffre, knowing that she was a trafficked sex slave, nothing has been proved. It may be true that Ms Giuffre has suddenly been reminded of something that happened two decades ago, but it is difficult to think that she can now produce evidence that would support her claims beyond reasonable doubt. What is certain is that she has become a celebrity and stands to profit from that, whatever the result of her law suit.
Andrew is in an awkward position. Because he doesn’t express sympathy or remorse, he is accused of being arrogant and unfeeling, but if he did, it would be taken as an admission of guilt if the matter finally ends up in court.
We all have our opinions. Falklands war hero or privileged hereditary parasite, Victim or money-grubbing opportunist.
But maybe it is just a tale of naiveté. A gullible unworldly royal who lets himself be taken apart by a soft-spoken interviewer, winning her place in journalistic history and a 17 year old woman who thinks that when a rich middle-aged man takes her to an extravagant party in a private jet, it is only to take pleasure in her conversation.
I certainly dont class him as such and never will.
While he had “done his time” we now know that was an inadequate sentence as a result of “a deal” being struck.
In any event, once the nature of his business was known Andrew should have kept his distance. If Andrew himself lacked the sense to do so one wonders what his minders were up to.
I disagree, he could have expressed much more for Epstein’s victims without seeming more guilty himself. It’s probably too late to do so now, but had he done so in the interview I don’t think the future would look quite so gloomy for him.
Yes, that’s the way they do things in America. Plea bargaining means that, if the outcome of the trial is uncertain, the accused may be persuaded to plead guilty to a lesser charge. But as the more serious charges are never tried in court, it is not possible for us to know if he had actually committed any crimes.
Andrew could justifiably claim that he wasn’t going to drop a friend who had been the victim of a “bum rap.”
A seventeen year old is not a woman. At that age you can not expect a teenager to be as ‘wordly wise’ as your comment suggests you are yourself.
At seventeen I went to a choral concert at Birmingham Symphony Hall, carrying my school satchel and in school uniform as I went straight after lessons. In the satchel was the score of the music, which I read as the concert unfolded.
At the interval I was approached by a youngish man, well-dressed and well-spoken, who had obviously watched me from a distance during the music. He complimented me on the score, and struck up a conversation about the concert, and choral singing, in which he asked me where I lived. I felt flattered and pleased by his interest, and he resumed his seat after five minutes or two of cordial and respectful ‘adult’ conversation, unlike the conversation a boy has with adults at school in that era the 1950s.
When the concert ended he sought me out. “I’m driving myself, and your home is directly on my way. Could I offer you a lift?”. I was very pleased to accept.
You can probably guess the rest. On the way he sexually molested me. I froze in horror. At that time I had no remembered sexual experience with girl, boy, woman or man. Afterwards I leapt from his car when it slowed to a stop, forgetting my satchel which was on the back seat.
I told no-one of the incident which filled me with shame and fear. At that time homosexuality was a crime. I only told my wife in recent years. I felt, and still sometimes fear, that the incident was my fault. Like many others of my age, my self-esteem and even my married life has been seriously damaged. I have lived with chronic anxiety and depression since childhood, doctors have confirmed.
I still rely on antidepressants to keep suicidal ideas and impulses at bay. I have taken the wretched things for 20 years now.
The day after the incident I was called to the headmaster’s study. He said, “Goble, you have a visitor, in the library. He is returning some thing you forgot when you left him.” I went in terror to the library. My satchel was there, my abuser was not.
The whole thing is engraved on my memory. His car was a brand new Morris Minor.
Maybe I was naive, but I’ve paid the penalty. As has the young person abused in the Prince Andrew scandal IMO.
Pull the other one, thick entitled creep more like.
Doing her job
Trafficked minor, surely.
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Age of consent in US is 16. We are still waiting to discover the nature of the compulsion. If she was a child, I wonder what her parents were doing while all this was going on.
So many unanswered questions.
The only thing I am sure of is that American lawyers are making stacks of money out of this.
In those days, our parents and teachers thought they could protect us by keeping us in ignorance. But I am not sure that the world is a safer place for children in these enlightened times.