Hi what do you do if you have been here over 5 years?
We have a wonderful time every New Year… the whole commune gets together and newcomers are officially welcomed … everyone cheers them… and, yes, the good stuff flows freely…
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Hi John… are you asking about C d Sejour applications?? in which cased… check out the thread
if you’ve been here, officially, for more than 5 years… you need a document proving 6 years… that will do fine…
I’ve given extra emphasis to Stella’s very sound advice. Being in France is not enough, however many years you’ve lived here, that’s how I understand it anyway, @Copyright.
‘Officially’ means as a declarant tax resident in France, with the paperwork to prove it.
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My dear Peter, I hate to say it, and it is the first time ever 
BUT this is not the case. All anyone needs to provide is a proof of being here more than 5 years ago (bill / house purchase etc), the same for now and a copy of your passport. this is IT - I’m seriously impressed with the French government they have chosen to make this easy and pain free for all.
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I’ll do my best to take your word for it dear @toryroo, ‘tho the officially must surely mean more than someone’ s simple say-so ?
It doesn’t directly affect us as we already hold a for-the-time-being CdS, and are fingers-crossed for a safe delivery of a replacement next year… 
I am so a cynic… M & Mme X apply for their CdS with their proof of house purchase and a 2020 EDF bill. CdS arrives shortly afterwards and all is well. Sighs of relief all round.
But perhapssomewhere a bureaucrat is inputting data and six months later 2+2 adds up to them receiving a letter from tax office to ask about their income during the period they declared they were resident in France…a possible outcome??
They are the ‘official rules’ as stated on the government site and how everyone is applying. The French government is being (IMHO) very generous and overlooking the meeting income etc if you have been here more than 5 years. Everyone in this case is then issued a 10 year, permanant, renewable CDS. Those under 5 years get a 5 year one that will then revert to a 10 year one at the end.
Have a look at the flow chart and you can see exactly what is being asked:
I does though Peter, you still need to apply under the new WA portal (before 30/06/21). If you have a 10 year CDS it is super easy, all you need to do is put in your details and a scanned copy of your current CDS and you will be issued with a new WA CDS.
According to my sources through work, no not at all. They know that we are all in a terrible position and have a policy of helping not hindering and as I say the CDS given to 5+ year people is a 10 year permanent CDS. I get the cynic thing (I’m a bit the same!), but honestly it is as simple as it seems (I did mine and dh’s in less than 15 minutes). Of course for the under 5 year people there are a few more documents than I’ve mentioned above. Have a look at the flow chart I linked above.
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I have already downloaded the English-language version of the flowchart and our fate is nicely sealed on page (1) as we are both British and hold 5-year residency permits issued in May 2018. We have been permanently settled her for just over 5 years.
According to the flow chart we need to produce copies of our passports and our residency cards, and a document to prove that we are resident in 2020. No requirement to prove our antecedent residency, it seems. Presumably the evidence for that is already in the comprehensive dossier we submitted to claim our CdS in 2018?
We live in La Manche where the staff at the Préfecture in St Lo were très sympa 
I’ve looked at all that. And I’m not suggesting that the CdS application process is anything other than gloriously simple (well done France!!) and that people won’t be getting shiny new CdS cards. But immigration and impôts are separate things, and so I am not so convinced that the fisc will happily write off 5 or 10 years back taxes should they happen to become aware of a significant infringement (ie not pensioners who haven’t declared as hardly any or no tax to pay anyway).
Were I in that position I think I might play it safe and “arrive” in 2020.
You are absolutely right on that point Peter.
The easy access route to a new Residency Permit where only the Passport and existing Titre de Sejour card need to be produced is only open to those people already lawfully resident in France under the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement, where ‘Lawfully Resident’ means submitting French tax returns and joining the French Health Service.
The only way that you get a new Residency Permit by only having to produce your Passport is to already have an existing Carte de Sejour, in relation to which the original application for that (and all its supporting documentatoin) has indeed been kept and can be consulted.
When @toryroo says “All anyone needs to provide is a proof of being here more than 5 years ago (bill / house purchase etc), the same for now and a copy of your passport.” that is fundamentally incorrect.
In the flow chart that Torey refers to, for those who do not already have a Permanent Titre de Sejour card, or had one at some time in the past which is now expired, it states quite plainly that documentary evidence must be produced to confirm the date of SETTLING in France. The ultra important word is ‘settling’ which means living in France as one’s permanent home, and doing so lawfully by submitting French tax returns and joining the health system etc. Simply providing proof of having purchased a house here more than 5 years ago will NOT suffice as such an act does not constitute ‘settling’.
Somewhere along the line, either for a previous Titre de Sejour card, or at this time now, documentary evidence has to be, or has to have been previously, produced to establish permanent lawful residence.
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Surely there will be people who are not able to prove “settlement date” … simply because it was so long ago, that the paperwork no longer exists.
In which case, I reckon, the oldest document which shows residency of “more than 5 years” will cause no problems…
and, as Tory says… there is a box to put the actual “settlement date” even if one can’t prove it with documentation… 
No Robert I’m sorry but you are wrong, this is true, they are being very, very accommodating about this. On the form you are asked to input the date you arrived but the documents you have to provide are just to prove you have crossed the 5 year line. They are NOT worrying about who has been in what tax / secu etc, perhaps they presume that this process will actually bring folks that have been flying under the radar into the fold so to speak.
This is incorrect.
Allow me to quote the document options listed on the government flow chart, the bottom one is ‘any other supporting document chosen by the applicant’ and they will accept house purchase documents for this.:
2° The residence permit which I hold or, if I have never had a residence permit in France, a document indicating the date of my settling in France:
lease agreement,
or home insurance contract,
or home insurance certificate,
or tax assessment,
or employment contract,
or pay slip,
or a document issued by social security
or any other supporting document chosen by the applicant.
The want you to prove the over 5 years thing so age of document you provide just needs to show that - who still has bills from 1998 for example. There is the box to enter the date you did arrive but the document just needs to be over the hurdle. Sorry Stella just read your answer @Stella so I’ve repeated a bit!
Robert, people are very stressed about this (as was I until they brought out the ‘rules’). It is in fact so simple and undemanding that NO ONE has need to be stressed anymore. They are doing every thing to help and nothing to hinder applications. It would be great if you could stop scaring people where it is not warranted. Your comments may have been valid before they put out the rules but now that we know they are being so accommodating they are not, they are just scare-mongering.
Possibly but I think not, they don’t want to kick anyone out, I get the feeling it is a clean slate situation.
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It’s not about kicking people out, it’s about getting the back taxes and the fines! And as well as fisc, URSAFF have a reputation for being ferocious if they become aware of illegal work.
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Absolutely Jane, and quite right too in my opinion.
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@toryroo
I think that you are perhaps failing to consider that the online application is not the whole process.
Once the application is registered online, it is then sent on to the appropriate Prefecture who are perfectly entitled to ask for further supporting documents, which they most probably will do in respect of those people who have not previously held a Titre de Sejour mentioning the word ‘Permanent’.
The Withdrawal Agreement is designed to protect the rights of those people who have been lawfully resident, the operative word being ‘lawfully’. Those people who have not previously proved that they have permanently settled in France during a previous Titre de Sejour application, will have to do so during the application for the new Residency Permit.
No doubt the degree of detail gone into will vary from one Prefecture to another, as if often the case with most administrative things here.
Scaremongering is not my intention. I am just trying to illuminate what the procedures actually are, so that people will not be surprised by being asked for further documentation at the Prefecture stage of their application.
You are of course correct when you say that folks are able to choose ‘any other supporting document’ to substantiate the date of their ‘settlement’ in France.
However, a document verifying that a person has bought a house does not of itself prove that the person ‘settled’ in France at that time. A person may have purchased a second home in France many years ago but it certainly does not mean that they became ‘settled’ here at that time.
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My reading of the flow-chart for people like us who have lived in France for more than five years, and who hold a valid 5-year Carte de Sejour need only to evidence their residency in 2020.
There is absolutely nothing to suggest that, at the time of online application we need to prove residency for >5 years, none whatsoever.
I shall elect to produce a recent bank statement showing two months or more of household transactions. I used this to get the 5-year CdS and it seemed to do the trick then, it validates a firm entrenchment in everyday life in France and rolls several utility and insurance direct debits into one format.
@Peter_Goble Your situation seems clear… as you say, according to the flow-chart you only need to provide:
copy of your valid passport
copy of your CdSejour
copy of a Utility Bill for 2020 showing your name and address…
good luck
(Proving Settlement only applies to those folk who have never had a CdS… which is not your case…)
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Robert, I’m not comfortable saying online where I work but my job is dealing with this stuff day in day out and I can assure you that I do understand the process entirely. The application goes in then is forwarded to the local prefecture who look to see the documents tick the box, if they are unhappy ask for another document that may be more appropriate (see list below) and send out an appointment, followed by the card about a month later.
The policy is that they are offering a very generous 10 year, permanent, renewable CDS to EVERYONE who has been in the county for longer than 5 years with very minimal paperwork required. They do have the right to ask for another document if what has been provided is wildly off the list but these cases will be very rare. They have taken this stance for the WA and the full decree will be signed and published later in the month, perhaps then you’ll believe me!
[quote=“Robert_Hodge, post:36, topic:32275”]
However, a document verifying that a person has bought a house does not of itself prove that the person ‘settled’ in France at that time.
[/quote] Of course it doesn’t really but they are accepting them, but most people would have a large selection of other paperwork so doesn’t need to be used but it IS an option. I’ve copied below a copy of a list of documents that have been put together based on discussions with the Ministry of Interiors and prefectures.
Proof of address – possible supporting documents
Utilities
• utility bill
• “attestation de contrat” from a utility provider
Townhall
• “attestation de résidence” (regardless if property owner, renting, staying with relative/friend)
Property owners
• deed papers
Local taxes
• Taxe foncière
• Taxe d’habitation
Insurance certificate
• house insurance
• car insurance
Health insurance
• “attestation de droits” (CPAM or MSA)
Income tax return
• correspondence
French bank account
• correspondence (bank statement is confidential)
Of course this is true and from some posts I’ve seen all over the net there are people who will be pushing the boundaries of legal claim, which is sad when the French have given a spirit of such welcome to all even with unregularised situations (tax / secu etc).
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Peter, you are right that is all you need, in effect it is your 5 year CDS that is your paperwork providing the ‘longer than 5 years proof’ - basically if you have one use that for those that don’t submit an alternative document.
Your current CDS is your proof as it will have the details attached. So in effect you are providing the 3 documents: passport, >5 years proof, current domicile proof.
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