Proving date for carte de sejour?

Thanks, Tory. :grinning:

One of my reasons for posting is to be absolutely (or as near as dammit) that I have ‘got it right’ and haven’t missed some essential point. Also I have a very common human tendency to pessimism!

All that needs to be done now is grasp the nettle(s) - for my wife and myself, and go on-line.
One concern I have is that I rely on my mobile for Internet access, and filling in forms on a tiny screen is a pain, as is uploading photocopied .pdf files… :cry:

I think you have missed this bit of the flowchart:-

2° The residence permit which I hold or, if I have
never had a residence permit in France, a
document indicating the date of my settling in
France: lease agreement, or home insurance
contract, or home insurance certificate, or tax
assessment, or employment contract, or pay
slip, or a document issued by social security or
any other supporting document chosen by the
applicant.

I’m with Tory. The WA CdS process is intended to regularise the position of all Brits in France simply & straightforwardly & then draw a line under the whole affair even if this gives a de facto amnesty to anyone who has been living under the radar.

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Clearly you have information that indicates that the procedure is going to be implemented in way that differs from the provisions as they are actually written. This divergence from what should be done doesn’t surprise me, and the fact that said divergence is favourable to the applicant is a good thing for said applicant.

The list of documents you have given to support proof of address will no doubt be useful to many readers here, but proving a person’s address at any given time does not prove that they have been permanently and lawfully resident for a given period of time. Proof of address and proof of being continuously and lawfully resident are two different things. Those persons who have been permanently and lawfully resident will of course be able to provide copies of their Avis d’Imposition over consecutive years to deal with the matter.

To be honest, what I found misleading was your statement in post 25 that “All anyone needs to provide is a proof of being here more than 5 years ago (bill / house purchase etc), the same for now and a copy of your passport”. I think you will find that according to the rules as written in the Withdrawal Agreement, what is needed is proof of continuous residency in France, which is not the same thing at all.

As an aside, and call me what you will for this, I don’t think that the attitude of the French Government has so much to do with generosity as it does with implementing the terms of the Withdrawal Agreement that was agreed to by the whole EU27 rather than just France.

I also hope that where applications are received from those who do not already hold a Titre de Sejour card, and which do not include copies of tax returns, that someone in authority starts to ask why that is the case. My view is that this is a good opportunity for the powers that be to root out the under the radar fly by nighters, and I hope that they seize it with both hands. I pay my taxes, and so should everyone else.

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@Peter_Goble
Because you already have a CdS with the mention ‘Permanente’ thereon, the only document you will need to provide at the online application stage is a scan or photo of the front of your CdS.
I have already done my online application registration and that is the only document requested from folks like us. That was even the case for my TCN (American) wife, so you will have no trouble at all. Rest easy mon ami.
Anyway, let’s not forget that big brother is always watching us these days, and so your location at the time of registering your application will be easily discernible by virtue of the IP address used to make the connection to the website.

It’s interesting to note the different path for folk… and the variety of paperwork available.

Under the Withdrawal Agreement an EU State can do what they like with regard to regularising the position of Brits who qualify under the WA. They don’t need to require proof of continuous residency. It’s open to a State to simply say that all Brits regardless of income or tax returns or whatever are granted permanent residence just on proof they are living in the State before the end of the transition period.
The WA applies equally to EU citizens resident in the UK. The UK has not required any proof of income or tax returns or anything bar proof of residence to qualify under the EU Settled Status scheme.

I think France is just pragmatically regularising the status of all Brits resident in France as simply & quickly as possible so that a line can be drawn under the sudden appearance of 200,000-300,000 TCNs on French soil.

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Just a quick question…

can someone tell me… just where on the existing/expired CdSejour does it say “Permanent”… is it in big letters ???

(asking on behalf of someone else)

I think one big issue here is that you need to think about whether you’re going to ask for naturalisation in the future. If you are only after the CDS then stretching the facts a little is probably going to be fine. If however you later apply for naturalisation and the tax documents tell a different story… that could be embarrassing.

I was surprised that the flow chart suggested I would be asked for more documents than was in fact the case. I gave my URSSAF latest trimestriel and my URSSAF attestation, attestation d’hebergement and ID for my partner, and my own ID, and I wasn’t asked for anything else. although the flow chart had suggested that would be the case.

Now we have to see what happens when the prefectures get hold of our documentation. I wonder when the first people will hear? And whether that will be ‘here’s your CDS’ or ‘what was the name of your grandfather’s primary school?’ :slight_smile:

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Goodmorning Stella,

On the front of the CdS under the heading of ‘Remarques’ is where mine says Sejour Permanent Toute activites professionnells.

You could well be right on that point Nigel.
We’ll never know of course, but it does make me wonder how many additional tax returns will be submitted next year from within said TCN group. :slight_smile:

I’ll pass the message on… cheers

Peter do you have a lap top or computer that you could tether your phone to and use it as an internet hotspot?

It is not misleading at all- the section directly from the government flow chart clearly states that there are only 3 documents require (>5 years, current domicile and passport). I have already agreed with you that this doesn’t ‘prove’ residency. HOWEVER THIS IS WHAT THEY ARE ASKING FOR AND ACCEPTING. I will be sure to link to the final decree when it is released.

No Robert, you are incorrect, this is only for a 10 YEAR CDS and Peter has a 5 year one so he still needs to provide his passport and his current proof of domicile.

So? People don’t have to be in France at the time of making the application.

No that sounds right - you are under ‘active self-employed, less than 5 years’ so need to provide:

  1. Passport
  2. Current proof of domicile
  3. Proof of activity (business registration and proof of genuine activity)

They will ask you your parents names!

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Nice to know I wasn’t asking a stupid question… about “permanent”

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Thanks I will be checking it out

Maybe you could try getting an ‘attestation sur l’ honneur’ from someone you know who is a teacher, a lawyer or a policeman /gendarme and who knows how long you have been here.

Not sure a gendarme would be allowed to or that would be treated any differently from you doing one and getting your signature witnessed at mairie?

I’ve asked a teacher friend and lawyer friend to do me a couple of ‘attestations sur l’ honneur’ in the past but obviously depends on whether they would be acceptable for your needs. Obviously if your Mairie does them then that’s fine.

I’m in the process of applying on line for our new Carte de Sejour, my partner only has a 5 year cds and I need to provide a utility bill. We pay our EDF by direct debit so the last bill on their website is over 6 months old, will the attestation de contrat be enough or should I use the recent water bill from our commune ? Or any other suggestions ?

An attestation from the EDF website is fine or a recent water bill is equally acceptable.