Yes, engaging you is a waste of time. Oh, and you haven’t “answered” anything,
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Using the 1975 referendum in this discussion is wrong as the EU and the UK’s relationship with the EU has changed beyond recognition since then.
There cannot and shouldn’t be any real negotiation with the EU as the UK has decided to leave the club and therefore has to suffer the consequences, all there should be is discussions on how best to untangle the ties the UK has.
True but some people get hung up on whether the 1975 vote was the “first” referendum and the 2016 one the second, making any putative further referendum the third - that is genuine nitpicking but easily solved by just using the phrase “further referendum”
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Personally I’m annoyed with anyone who tells me not to carp or calls me a remoaner. If something is wrong then I’m not going to stay quiet.
I would also hazard a guess that many people commenting are already resident in France.
For us we have it all to do in 5 months. I was stupid enough to believe the UK government would sort a deal out in a civilised fashion but it seems not.
As for the point that our carping is causing the EU to be tougher that is just ridiculous.
I would think the wild accusations from the right wing media about Juncker and Barnier and the depiction of Tory in fighting, this is what encourages the EU to be tough. They are dealing with petulant children who no longer want to be in the club but still want to keep some of the benefits.
Life is not like that. The other 26 nations will enjoy their club quite happily without the UK. They’ll be glad of the peace.
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The expectation of Brexit has been explained to me in terms of Gym membership. The UK is looking to cancel its Gum membership and therefore stop paying for it - but the UK would like to continue to use the gym equipment, swimming pool and sauna. The other members of the gym are unkeen for the UK to do this as the other members would be paying for it.
The EU is saying NO.
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I have four twenty-something nieces, all rabid leftwingers. According to them, all property should be shared out, landlords are criminal exploitative scum (I’m a landlord and explaining to them how, as a single woman, I had to do three jobs to pay the mortage at 13% … falls on deaf ears). Profit’s a dirty word. Salaries should be capped.
Corbyn is the saviour. My brother, a lifelong Conservative voter, who’s funded them through university so they can leave without debt, is baffled. Maybe it’s a generational thing, to turn against the ideals of your parents?
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Do any of your nieces own property? 30 years ago my sister and her husband espoused such views. I told my husband their views would change once they actually had some property and money of their own. Sure enough my bil was soon keen to climb up the property ladder. My sister however has split from him and lives in a council house which she refuses to buy because it’s not morally right.
My 3 nephews are rabid conservatives.
We paid ridiculous interest on our mortgage and get practically nothing on our savings.
It is very much an age thing, I’m happy to say my children and their partners are left of centre. Like me they want the best bits of socialism and capitalism. Support for those that need it and a gentle check on the richest to prevent exploitation.
Your nieces will soon realise that some people will always make money, some will always lose it and most of us will pootle on happily in the middle.
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Morning Mat, love the Brexit in Gym Membership terms. But what if the gym is not a Virgin Active gym or similar but a gym where the machines don’t all work and the swimming pool is never cleaned and you have spoken to the management many times to complain but they just don’t want to listen and you are stuck in a long term contract.
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Sticking with the gym analogy if all these things were true you would just walk away and not try to haggle over use of the badminton court.
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But Britain so obviously only wants to use the equipment that works after it leaves and still expects the other members to pay the bills for that equipment and for the parts that need investment and servicing. The gym analogy works on that model as well.
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As has been suggested - as they begin to own property and earn reasonable money their ideals may fall away - students are often very left wing but it normally seems to dilute.
This has been the case for many years otherwise we would always have a left wing government.
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I grew up in a socialist household and my parents, as homeowners, were in the minority in our locality. I think that linking home ownership to voting right of centre is an oversimplification. I have owned property since the early1980s, had well paid jobs and a comfortable lifestyle for most of my working life yet could not entertain voting for a Conservative government, especially the current lot with the oddities queueing up to make a leadership challenge, or to vote for anything that damages the community and shared values. I also think that it’s great that young people are able to change their minds based on their life experiences.
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One thing’s for certain Torre, the UK won’t be able to get the pool cleaned once they’ve cancelled their membership.
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Absolutely, nothing wrong with changing your mind - even when it comes to Brexit.
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So did I. I have never voted conservative in my life but my very left wing sister accused me of being a Thatcherite once. I remain extremely insulted.
I don’t see any wrong in home ownership and even capitalism.
Socialism is , in my opinion, more about ensuring everyone has equal opportunities and rights to good housing, healthcare and education. I will never understand why the right wing see this as dangerous in some way and suspect it is more to do with comparisons with 1960’s Soviet bloc.
It’s ironic that the right wing tend to align themselves with Christian values and yet act in ways that Christ would condemn.
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Morning Paul, its almost near impossible to just walk away from Gym membership. Everyone knows the benefits of gym membership you get fitter and stronger and what if this was the only Gym in your area. They might have a great badminton court that yes you will miss but if the pool is never cleaned and running machine is broke what do you do? What you do is go to the manager ask them to be cleaned/fixed and they do that, if they just shrug there shoulders you give them your 3 month notice. I think everything should be discussed with Gym analogy 
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Of course leaving a gym is one person making a decision for themselves.
I don’t like swimming much so I would be happy to just have the rest of the equipment but someone in my family has decided to cancel the membership for everybody because it doesn’t suit them. So I am no longer a member although it’s not my choice and even though I contributed my share.
That’s the real analogy.
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Morning Teresa, thing is Just over half the members were complaining, maybe if management would have just cleaned the pool they would have gotten away with leaving running machine broke and not so many people would of left the gym.
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