BTW Finn...I don't follow the 45 % approximative rate for the auto entrepreneur...I thought that it was just the straight 12% to cover social/maladie charges and nothing else (as long as you remain within the financial turnover limits....would appreciate an explanation if you get chance...don't give me any bad surprises s'il te plaît !!!!!!!!!!!
The last bit is very sound advice which can't be over emphasised!
Need the LIKE button again
Thanks for your good wishes Yvette - we will sort it out and youre right Ive met some very nice people sat behind their counters and desks ( a few piggies too!) our bank account-manager (not the bank account manager!) is wonderful and always ready with a smile and advice which makes a visit to the bank that much more relaxed!
Good wishes
Thank you for all your advice here Finn - although it has made me feel like a complete fool! I have to say in my defence I did read many interntet sites/books etc about starting a business in France and nowhere that I read did it in laymans terms explain the system here that we are now dealing with - we knew that the 3rd year was the danger year re cotisations because of the adjustment catch up,which in our case was 2009 and our charges that we received for that year are relatively normal at around 15500E compared with those received for 2010. So not having a naturally mathmatical mind has left us totally misunderstanding the whole system of calculating our cotisations.Also the fact that what you actually earn - ie pay into the bank account - is not the final amount the cotisations are calculated on. For our business there are deductions as you stated above and allowances which I beieve come off the final figure such as fuel and vehicle allowance? I suppose I am only re emphasizing your warning to anyone being unprepared when considering starting a business here.
What you have told me in invaluable and I appreciate it very much - as I said on a previous posting I now need to sit down with my husband over the weekend and actually digest all of this information make sense of it all, decide what we can and cant put on the table for RSI, talk to our accountant and decide where we go from here - other than the wine section in the local supermarket!
I will post a link on the other thread as you suggested- god forbid anyone here gets into the same mess we have - atleast let people know what has happened to us can be avoided if you know what to expect!
Thank you once again.
Hi Beverley
What a horrible nightmare. The RSI did a similar thing to us. My husband got a huge bill just before Christmas and their accountant managed to negotiate for them to pay it in monthly installments. If you want more information I'm happy to ask him. I think he left it to his accountant and I left it to him. He was surprised they suddenly came at him with such a huge amount thoguh and my brother in law (who also has his own business) said it had happened to him and that now he calculates what he should be paying them and tries to keep it aside for when they finally ask.
The important thing though is that they are open to negotiation and if your accountant cannot solve this for you you should find one that can. My husband's accountant specialises in restaurants so not much help but stay positive. Best of luck x
well done Finn, been waiting for your contribution, especially the last little gem!
Very sound advice Finn and well put, particularly the advice at the end. 'Like'
Jayne thank you so much for clarifying that to me - was beginning to think I was going mad and had dreamt my husband's statut!! Based on your estimates our figures accross the board are wrong - enough for me to dig my heels in and be a thorn in the RSI's side arguing our corner every step of the way.
Youve had some rotten luck there aswell - and yet like me you love living here which is why I think so many of us in the Self Employed Sole Trade bubble are hanging on in there, even if it is by our fingernails.
Best of luck to you and thanks again for your message.
Lovely message thank you Jon - another person who has brought a smile to my day! Im readying myself for the battle - my poor husband will not know whats hit him when he gets home tonight and I explain all the advice and information I've received from everyone - it is so much appreciated!
I am going to fight this all the way, be a pedantic arse if needs be and will show no fear! I am so looking forward to telling them to "go forth and multiply" all in my best possible french! I am pretty certain now that our home is safe and will get final confirmation from our accountant - the question has been asked!
Thanks for your mail ours is maison.gray@yahoo.fr Best of luck to you too!
Oh my just read your post - have been trying to do the same and get on with chores here - this site is a huge distraction just wading through it all and reading threads never mind having your own thread on it as well/
I cannot believe it -in the words of Victor Meldrew - it is the tiniest world!!!! Will have to tell Richard this - he wont believe it either and then when your hubby is next up there they can introduce themselves! He has been living upstairs as they are having work done downstairs and hes going to be relocating back to the appartment when the work starts!
Well good luck with your budget forecasts - I'll still PM Richards numbers.
Hi Liz, I certainly know what you are going through and I thought I would never go back to the UK - been travelling since 1987, but after long discussions with the other half, it looks like we will return in 2 to 3 years time. His father is in his 80's, other half has health problems and it will be nice to finally be back near family. At least we will be in a position to buy a nice country character home with a bit of land in the UK - could not return to a city or large town - like my peace and quiet! Good luck Liz and hope the business does well this year! :)
..Moving story Beverly..and very well written and explained...I have been an antique/....well 'brocante!' dealer here for over 25 years.All commercants/self employed, French and English alike, can give you similar horror stories,myself included.Having said that , the financial figures that you give are well up in the premier league and more than scary.!!!I can give you purely personal advice based on personal experience in French commerce.Stand your ground and pay them very little or nothing.They won't seize your house (or put a block on it..hypothèque) in the near mid future.I don't think the RSI can..only the fisc...I had a tax control in 2005 which didn't do me much good financially...and they were to hypothèque my house and fishing hut if I didn't pay up.I imagine that only the fisc can do this. Speaking of which you might get more bills based on the earnings that the RSI consider....the figure they are asking for is outrageous..voir FANTASTIC. Get in touch with a social worker ..they are generally very good. Refuse to pay. Quite right of you to ask for a breakdown of the figures....I can go on and on and on..!!! The RSI will have to drag it out for a long time....they'll probably recalculate and come back with the figure halved...when that happens...tell them by registerd courier to f.... (sorry) off !!! see the social worker and ask advice off people who you feel know their thing.The RSI are joking....I honestly wouldn't lose sleep..I've been through similar but with much smaller demands..(although the tax control was heavy enough for my liking!)... if you want to get in touch, my mail is jon1tu@aol.com .....best of energy to you and your husband...don't worry..
Good luck Beverly. We are lucky to have a good accountant that can sort everything out, otherwise I think I would of gone mad by now. My other half is 12 years older than me and will be 60 in a couple of years time and he is not in the best of health, so I have to think sensibly that I will not be able to carry on the business by myself in France and employing someone in France is a nightmare, so do not want to go down that route! At least in the UK I speak the language, have had a businesses there before, so can start again whilst the other half can semi retire :) The business here in France is doing really well and I do not think it will be a problem selling it to an enthusiastic couple that have tons of energy.
I have every sympathy with you. We have had a nightmare with RSI also, but not as severe as you.We are currently REEL Simplifie but thinking of changing.
If you know your "net" profit then 47% of that will be lost in charges to them. It seems to work that if you go on one system they take loads in impots and in the other system, hardly any impots but high cotisations. So you cannot win.
The other problem is the charges they put on for non payment. Our bank rejected a monthly prelevement and within a week we had been sent a letter charging us 140 Euros. All because a cheque went in one day later in to the business account (plus a 60 Euro charge by the bank for the rejection also).
The most annoying thing was I had gone in to them when I had their annual adjustment and said it was high, she shrugged her shoulders, said it wasn't her problem and we should speak to our bank.
As for accountants, like everyone has said, they work for the state, they don't try and save you money at all. In fact our last one cost us by filling in a TVA form wrong we were sent a bill instead of a refund and then they submitted the form to the impots late and we were fined. The classic shrug of the shoulders was given.
Even visits to RSI I have found pretty unsuccessful. Its all very frustrating. If I didn't love living here so much I would shut it all down tomorrow. Good luck and I hope their figures are wrong.
Amazing, it is my husband - can you believe it? He has been doing some work there and the owners said they had a tenant in who would move out for the duration of the work. How strange! It must be the same as Change is absolutely tiny.
Glad you liked my website. I currently work partime and will be giving up my job to work full time for myself in May, keep getting cold feet about how we are going to manage with both of us self employed and fighting the RSI.
Anyway, must go am supposed to be doing a budget forecast to stop me stressing about this year! SFn is a bad distraction when you have to work at home on the computer!
Ill look at the website you suggested - am feeling a bit overwhelmed with it all right now but will try to digest all the information Ive recieved over the weekend. I keep telling myself it is only money and wether the fgures are right or wrong we will be able to pay it off eventually - its just what happens after that, that we need to get right!
Rich stays in a little appartment under a holiday home owned by a British couple and yes we know the Burgundy 4U lady! I know the english family are having a new staircase installed in the next few weeks (Rich has got to move a radiator for them before the work starts!)- thats not your hubby by any chance? Now that would be a very small world if it is him!
I'll send you Richs contact numbers on PM - ps I looked at your website - its very good! You are lucky to be doing something you really love and getting paid for it -good luck to you!
Will be in touch!
Umm, unfortunately you are not the first to make that mistake and you wont be the last, it is very common for businesses (French ones as well) to be overwhelmed by the RSI payments for the 3 year, which due to their accounting system doesn't become evident till the fourth year.
Yes it is Arena Park, they were telling me about how they had their own subbies so it rang a bell when you mentioned it. I don't know Change but my husband has two clients there and the lady who works for Burgundy4U also lives there, it's quite a little British hub for these parts! PM me your husbands contact details as my husband often needs a plumber for the odd little job, here and there and it is very difficult to find a plumber just for a couple of hours. It wont resolve all your difficulties but it keeps money turning over:-)
My friends dad has a place in Bragny sur Saone and he bought there as he got a lot more house for his money, personally I think it is a bit far out but it depends what you are looking for. We love Chagny as it is exactly halfway between Beaune and Chalon sur Saone and very quick to the motorway in either direction.
Unfortunately I'm not too sure about changing your statut backwards, we are planning to chang eto EURL/SARL next year. Have you looked at Valeries Start Business in France, she has good information on there but unfortunately she now charges and when you are tight on money it is hard to justify laying out more. There is a certain amount of free content though so you might find what you are looking for.
Cheers and keep in touch
Exactly Howard! The world is spinning around in ever decreasing circles - sure some astro physicists are raising their fists and shaking them vigorously at me but I dont care! It appears to me that more and more of the world seems to run on this eternal battle between its many governments with their oh so similar taxes and us poor plebs trying to scratch an honest living and many having to duck under the radar to do so!
My husband works very long hours for one contractor and because of our situation is, at the moment, caught in a trap - he has to keep working to earn the money to pay these extortionate debts - he doesnt have time to go and fit Madame Delfont's washing machine or sort our Henri's leaky shower and walk away with a little wad of cash - mores the pity!
Re: the thing that gets mentioned ever so quietly is making sure you are paid cash for some "sales" - so what message does that put out?
Very true but the black economy is a common problem everywhere and the more governments raise taxes and waste the money they do get, the bigger it becomes. As Kerry Packer once said to a parliamentary committee "I pay no more taxes than the law allows. You don't spend my taxes wisely enough to make it worth paying more".
First you have to be lucky enough to be in the position of being able to accept cash. Many are not.
Need that "LIKE" button again - just seen you post Neil - made me smile. We dont have any contact with URSSAF - trust me RSI and the Revenue offices is enough!
So we will proceed from this point seeking Justice and being creative with our Honesty!
Still endeavouring to be positive!
Thanks