So passport stamping will be a thing of the past?

Nah… what happens behind closed doors (aka the Salle des Fêtes) stays behind closed doors… sufficient to say it would have got Hyacinth Bucket in a tizzy… :wink: :roll_eyes: :rofl:

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It probably would be a challenge for the Home Office as this is French Passport Control! There were good reasons for moving the passport controls to the departure country.

From https://www.biometricupdate.com/202111/post-brexit-biometric-border-checks-could-bring-chaos-to-cross-channel-travel
“There is no such thing as an e-gate for a car, and there is no such thing as an e-gate process for people travelling as a group – they’re all one-at-a-time processes,” Dover Harbour’s Reardon told the (Home Affairs )Committee, in a session which is available to view online (from 10:33). He says there is a mismatch between the way biometric controls are handled and the way people travel – in vehicles and in groups – and there is no way yet to do this without people leaving their vehicles.

“You’re in the middle of live traffic, it would be equivalent to asking people to get out of their car at a motorway toll booth – it’s fundamentally unsafe and it can’t happen,” said Reardon.

There is plenty of other interesting information in that article.

Eurostar could have a problem finding space for booths at St Pancras.

Hopefully they’ll find some way of avoiding getting out of a car on a cold stormy night at Dover?

The above statement is fundamentally untrue.

  1. A motorway toll booth has traffic approaching it at 70 mph whereas the ticket control point within a ferry port does not.
  2. The queue of vehicles inching forward one car’s length at a time towards the ticket inspection point in a ferry port cannot be described as ‘live traffic’ in the normal sense of the term.

The last couple of times I have traveled through Dieppe ferry port it was necessary to get out of the car and open the boot for a security inspection and also to be personally scanned with the magic wand device. The time of day and the weather make no difference.

This is just the same as a group of people traveling by air. They get off the plane and pass through the e-gate one by one.

So imagine this;
One arrives at the ferry port in the car and joins the queue for check-in at the ticket booth. After this the car moves slowly forward to the security check point. Then the car is driven into a covered Customs Shed type building where there are a number of Passport Scanning bays just like picking up groceries at the supermarket. Each passenger has their passport scanned and residency permits (if any) checked. Once all are cleared, then the barrier goes up at the end of the bay and the vehicle is driven forward to join the boarding queue.

Provided that the appropriate facilities are provided, the photographing, fingerprinting, and document scanning can be done in a safe and efficient manner which would undoubtedly be far easier than having to walk a considerable distance through an airport and then stand in line for what can be a very long time indeed. Is getting out of the car for 5 minutes or so really that much of a problem ? In reality it would just mean sitting in the car in the boarding queue for 5 minutes less.
People like Reardon are just being obstructive and spreading doom and gloom for the sake of it. If Mr Reardon really can’t figure out a way to deal with the situation then perhaps he should seek alternative employment. As I said, it just needs some customer service oriented forward planning.

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Frankly, the worse the experience the better IMO :slightly_smiling_face:

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Why so John ? Do you wish to discourage international travel for some reason ?

International travel is a big canvas Roger, this is only little Britain we’re talking about :slightly_smiling_face: I want the maximum disruption due to Brexit possible so that Johnson and his fellow travellers are called out for the liars they are. I guess I do bear a grudge :thinking:

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I have to admit that I am more of the school of thought that matching fingerprints to Passports is a good way of detecting forged documents, and thus apprehending criminals and terrorists for the protection of us all. Done in the right way, the inconvenience will be minimal and the benefits considerable.

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I don’t see why people have to get out of cars, you just drive to automatic scanner, wind down window, and drive on. They have the booths on land borders, just need to reequip them. And no doubt there will be a frequent traveller blip and go system.

I also think this is complete nonsense. As it is, if there is one person in a car and the toll booth is at the “wrong” side for the driver, the person has to get out. The same can even happen at a motorway toll both. There is zero risk.
All passengers on cross Channel coaches get out of the coach for passport control. There is a system, and it is safe.
Apart from anything else, ports usually have a very low speed limit, 20mph or some such, so it is ridiculous to liken the traffic flow to a motorway.
The man clearly has an agenda. He does not want to go to the trouble of upgrading and is trying to justify not doing so.

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You don’t seem to understand what is being proposed. How do you scan all the back seat passengers?
Each individual needs to be scanned and checked each entry into the Schengen area.
Perhaps a diagram would help?

Congratulations. It seems you have a simple solution Eurostar, Dover Port and Getlink (Eurotunnel) hadn’t thought of.
But perhaps they see there are other logistical problems?

I’ve read through all the posts so far and I can’t honestly quite understand what’s happening. It seems like a system similar to what airports already have is being put into other methods of border crossings. Perhaps my confusion is because I’ve not been on a ferry since I was about 10 so don’t understand the logistics but it doesn’t seem like anything insurmountable is being suggested. Certainly it seems possible for EuroTunnel to make this work, perhaps via their vast ‘let’s sell these people their body weight in overpriced chocolate before they leave’ terminal buildings or such, they have a tonne of dead space that could be adapted, and EuroStar via their terminals. The only port I know of (due to the fact that I used to get the train to london via the station next door to the port) is Newhaven and that always had a tonne of extra land around doing nothing as the port operations shrunk, although I think some may be housing now, so I imagine they could have some kind facility for this if need be. That’s obviously a tiny setup compared to Dover or such though so perhaps somewhat irrelevant.

It seems like a good idea that may take a bit of ingenuity to make smooth for passengers. I guess the key will be whether the operators want to make the effort and expense to do that, or rather just pass the buck back to the customs etc and try blame the issues that then develop all on them.

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More likely that they do not want to go to the effort and expense of implementing some new aspects to their existing systems.

Isn’t the other aspect that ETIAS is due to come in soon, which will take most people out of this equation as they will have visa waiver rights?

No.
ETIAS is just a visa waiver. It is a pre-travel screening process and those in possession have approval to enter without a visa for a limited period. There is no associated tracking.

EES is the monitoring mechanism to check movement in and out.

Yes obviously, but requiring non-europeans to be pre-screened should seriously speed monitoring and tracking as data will already be in the system.

And really if a few thousand people spend more time than they should in one EU country rather than another is this a major issue? The PTB should know who is within the Schengen border, and many other ways of tracking precisely where they are. Seriously evil criminals will have other entry and exit routes I imagine.

As with so much legislation the important thing is to have the ability to put controls in place. If it isn’t there 100% of the time then that’s an option for each country.

It can be set up on a (relatively) simple spreadsheet.

“In efforts to comply with the European Union’s Entry/Exit System (EES) which is expected to go fully operational by the last quarter of this year, Belgium’s Federal Council of Ministers has given clearance for the establishment of a new biometric migrant database to be accessible by all EU member states.”
and
“The announcement provides the example of a traveler entering Spain visa-free from outside of the EU, but deciding to travel to Belgium when their 90 days have expired, rather than leave the bloc. The current system does not afford a method of knowing when their allowed stay has expired, whereas EES will provide a digital trail.”

EES has been postponed until May 2023

and
ETIAS has been postponed from May 2023 until Nov 2023
EU Postpones Launch of ETIAS to November 2023 - SchengenVisaInfo.com.

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And it now seems from November 2023 there will be a 6 month transition period - so full implementation from April 2024.