The case for Breturn

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Excellent Graham and I fervently hope England and Wales will rejoin (Scotland and NI will probably have rejoined all ready by then). The issue for the gung-ho types will be that there will be no rebate, no derogations and Euro membership will be mandatory.

Luckily, the bastards that caused all this will make as much money, if not a lot more, by rejoining as they’re making by leaving. So, it only the proles the get stuffed both ways. Funny old World.

Watched Peterloo last night. La plus ça change… one might say, but I’m optimistic - we have bastards in power today. That won’t last forever.

The circumstances that prevailed in Europe 50 years ago have changed, and in today’s world the argument that the UK has to be in the EU in order to prevent WW3 is ridiculous.
Yes there was a good basis for being in the EEC, but the EEC no longer exists. The EU is a different kettle of fish. The ‘club’ has changed in it’s make up and aims, and that is what brought about the review of membership by the UK.
Sadly the folk in Brussels have not learnt the lessons from the history books that the people of the UK are not the type to submit to bullying and so they continue to try and impose EU rules even though the UK has left the club. If only they were bright enough to compromise and adapt to the changing needs of member states then Brexit would not have been necessary.
The really sad part is that Brexit was effectively caused by the EU itself and their failure to learn from those empires aspired to by the Romans, Napoleon, and even Churchill.

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Alternatively too many people were conned by Farage & Johnson into thinking the EU was to blame for many failures of UK.

This will become apparent when UK has “full control” of its borders but illegal immigrants will continue to arrive as UK Border Force simply will not be able to implement what was sold to many. Just one example - but there will be many.

I do agree had the EU made a small number of changes when David Cameron tried to negotiate before the referendum that the result may have been different and I am sure the EU regret this.

Such a sad mess.

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Just in case everyone has forgotten what was being asked for by Cameron…

What a complete load of tripe Robert.

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Rubbish Robert. It was because of xenophobic, racist and ignorant British people who believed the nonsense and lies spouted by Boris Johnson and his cronies. Well I hope the ones who voted for it are the worse affected by it, it’s what they deserve.

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I can tell you that someone I know in UK who voted for Brexit certainly got the bad end of the stick as all their contracts were stopped and they went bust.

Did you watch the video Robert? A big chunk of it debunks the brexiter myth that the UK joined a ‘common market’ which without its consent turned into a ‘union’. The fact is that the idea of closer political union was always central, and that the UK always agreed with it - there is much contemporary evidence on this, some of it in the video. You can’t just trot out myths like this here without offering counter evidence - making a reasonable case for your view - or at least not without the many well-informed contributors to this forum thinking it rubbish.

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Nothing was ever going to satisfy the right wingers, I don’t think that the ERG Group existed as such then.
They wanted ‘out’ to 'retain their sovereignty and get rid of the European Court of Justice and The Human Rights Act.
Even they hadn’t dreamed of facing Brexit with the effects of Covid at the same time.

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Before Hitler, Germany was regarded as one of the most civilized countries in the world. Parents of Jewish friends told me how safe they felt. Even when the writing was on the wall, people were saying “It couldn’t happen here.”
Hitler made a good start with a call to “Build, build, build!” Then before anyone could do anything about it, he had wiped out the opposition, taken over the legal system and the media and was asking the rhetorical question, “Guns or butter?”
That sort of thing can happen when a country gets into a financial black hole, people lose confidence in the electoral process and a charismatic leader emerges, promising a “fantastic” future!

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Some excellent analysis of what ‘sovereignty’ really means here…

Very true Mike - and of course the argument that the UK has to be in the EU in order to prevent war only appears ridiculous because the EU has created a context in which armed conflict is unthinkable in western Europe.

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By a biased anti Brexit left wing journalist. :grinning:

Anti-brexit and left-wing - and therefore not biased, surely?

Since its inception - as a description of those that sat on the left of the États généraux at the start of the French Revolution - the term ‘left-wing’, as well as representing those opposed to unreasonable social privilege and exploitation, has also always been associated with the rational and the search for scientific, objective truth - whereas the right has always relied on authority, tradition, religion or superstition - in short, anything but evidence and sound argument, which of course it has to avoid at all costs.

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Just playing with you Geof, I’ve read quite a lot of PM’s stuff and he is on the ‘left’ of politics and was/is still dead against Brexit, maybe he’s the exception?

One of the arguments for leaving the EU, was that the main protagonists in the EU, were not elected by us, and therefore non representative. Well, I live in Shropshire and am not represented by someone I didn’t vote for. The difference now, is, after leaving(when it happens) we’ll have no friends. Its took the best part of 50yrs to try to get the non English people of Europe to sort of accept us, now we’re going back in history ffs. Why are people so scared of johnny foreigner, we’re all Africans anyway :+1:

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You do have a strange slant on things don’t you. Britain was at the heart of the EU, an influential rule maker not an insignificant country forced by the rest to follow a second rate path. Being a member of a significant trading block is vital for the economy in the C21st. You are using words like bullying, are you a Sun reader? I presume you are a true Englishman who believes that the French should be grateful that you have chosen to spend your retirement in their country n

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I live in Shropshire and I would do anything to change my vile right wing MP - friend of the far right Pis party. Furthermore, I would do anything not to be governed by his party - especially in it’s present next to usesless incarnation. I accept completely the trade-off in losing a small amount of sovereignty to be a part of a hugely powerful trading block. I marched in London March 2019 for a second referendum. I saw EU membership stolen by deception on a massive scale and law breaking without sanction. We now have a clown of a PM riding on the back of his dishonesty to the most powerful position in the land. The architect of this deceitful campaign pulls his strings and sets his own rules. The lesson is - lie, cheat then lie some more and you will get your prize. What has become of this land?

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The irony is that many of the EU policies that ostensibly irked leavers so much were actually originally championed by the UK

This thread is a long read but illustrates the paradox well

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