Incompetence might be closer - I need to do more reading on the subject (not being an economist) but have seen more than one reference to the fact that the austerity programme was not well suited to the financial world of the 2010’s - being more rooted in the attitudes of the last century (along with most of the ERG’s notions of international trade).
Not quite that simple Geof. Governments borrow money by issuing bonds that eventually have to be repaid. Some may be bought by overseas investors with the result that that the interest paid on those bonds will be lost by the issuing country. Others may be bought by onshore investors and pension funds and will (theoretically) get recycled into the economy.
Unfortunately, this tends to benefit the wealthy, to the disadvantage of the poor. But growth tends to make it sustainable. The assumption being that GNP will have increased by the time the debts have to be repaid.
Since the 60s, individuals have been doing much the same thing, borrowing money on credit cards in the expectation that there will be future earnings to repay the debt.
All this works so long as things remain much the same, with continued growth in personal and national income. But we are effectively mortgaging the future and if it goes seriously wrong, the only way out is to default. That would result in loss of confidence, leading to devaluation of the currency, recession, austerity and downright poverty.
And, as ever, it’s the poor wot gets the blame!
For to him who has will more be given , and he will have abundance; but from him who has not, even what he has will be taken away." — Matthew 13:11–12,
amen 
Most independent economists take the Keynesian view that if the private sector contracts the worse thing you can do is contract the public sector as well - it adds to the contraction. In this view ‘austerity’ was precisely the opposite of what was needed in 2010.
It was incompetence on the part of the LibDems - but I really think it was dishonesty on the part of the Tories, their real agenda was simply the old neo-liberal shrink the state, make the workers more precarious, make life tough so people work harder - and make more profit for the privileged. They impoverished the UK deliberately, using the cover of the financial crash.
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There are indeed many complications - but the UK government actually issues bonds and pays interest in sterling - so that money does continue to circulate in the UK system. It is NOT the same as household debt.
You are right though that the whole system depends on growth - this is the fault in thinking that climate/ecological breakdown can be avoided by minor changes like energy efficiency and less consumption - it can’t: real reductions in these things - de-growth - implies the collapse of the world financial system unless that system is fundamentally reformed too.
Deleted message for Keith Lane. Just not worth it.
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I think our man has left the building. But he may return for a reprise of “Only The Lonely” 
And they will do so again but 10x more so under the twin assaults of Brexit and Covid.
How to remove the unpleasant odour of Brexsh*t - ask questions. Usually does the trick.
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Sounds about right but not everyone is a Keynesian, I suppose.
Just when I was getting gee’d up for an interesting debate.
Typical of the genre… full of wind and piss (probably more piss than wind) 
As proved in point by how well Australia rode out the GFC - every person was given I think AUD1200 to help us through it. Of course the majority ran out and spent it which kept the economy going. We of course, being canny, popped ours straight in the bank in our house fund! Wayne Swan the treasurer at the time was much applauded all around the world by major economists for his management of the Aussie economy.
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I do firmly believe that a government should not spend more than it receives. The priorities of where money is spent can change but they should not spend more than they receive.
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The thing is Mat what we mean by these terms (money, spending, etc) is precisely what’s in question. I posted this Spanish short in another thread a few months ago - I think you’ll find it interesting and can get the gist even if you don’t speak Spanish - the point is that the $100 holding deposit on the hotel room at the start enables everybody to pay off their debts, even though it’s returned unused and intact at the end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jYekI9j-HE4
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I generally side with Robert Hodge.
Were the British electorate persuaded in their choice by the “opinion makers” from both sides? The opinion makers are tagged with many
disparaging labels. The opinion maker’s democracy should be questioned, their political and financial interests transparently exposed to all. But
the interests are not exposed. Rather, the media publishes. Is there truth in their publications? Is an individual ‘A’ encouraged to present their
personal perspective, or are they immediately out - shouted by a louder voice ‘B’ that ‘A’ is non PC. Does pacific compliance move society towards utopia or
dystopia? Only a healthy, vigourous debate, that starts by the participants repecting the right of every participant to be heard, fosters democracy.
Society changes. Improved communication is a common driver of past revolutions. But, are mobile phones merely a Pavlovian bell. I hope not.
If the British voters were “misled” then the portal to the brave new world has opened and sucked the majority inside. Do we learn from history
or is it part of the brain washing?
The people delegate maintaing social stability to their governments. Do many support those parts of the world where a private militia terrorises?
Some will quarrel with the parallel, but has the EU, or rather the ambitions of paricularly Macron and Merkle to turn the EU into one large state seen,
not just by British voters but across Europe. An individual anecdote - I went to one of my local wine co-operatives in Febuary this year. The lady serving
knew us from previous visits, she said that France was watching the success of Britain and Brexit and would follow if Britain was sucessful. My countered arguments
were severely hampered a) by my knowledge of french politics - local and national, but had experienced the “social acts” of the Gilet Jaunes and
b) my french. But she was an “ordinary” person. I doubt that hers was a lone voice. I may have identified the voice of Yanis Varoufakis - an ecomomics professor at Athens,
and the Greek finance minister at the time of the Greek Bailout “Adults in the room” is the easier read. His descriptions of the motives and methods
of those demanding the imposition of draconian austerity on Greece - the mother of democracy" make for chilling reading in this increasingly dystopinn world.
Richard Corbett - MEP Labour Leader in the European Parliament offers his answers to Tony Benns five questions. I suspect that his answers are not in accord with
those Yanis Varoufakis might offer, https://www.richardcorbett.org.uk/benns-five-questions/ His answer to the all important 5th question
“How do we get rid of you” is as likely as Sir Keir Starmer congratulating the current UK Government on their handling of the pandemic!
Over many years the EU has failed the people of Europe. Ease of movement. I cannot use a French plug in Spain. Has their been an EU unified approach
to taxing large global corporations, creative in their accountancy practices. The role of China - probably one of the larger holders of European debt as
Europe borrows and prints to finance economic revitalisation. Todays mid day news reports the aggressive Chinese response to the
government’s annoucement of a review of Huawei’s contribution to 5G. Together with China’s contribution in the nuclear power industry. Add to
that the Security law China has imposed on Hong Kong. Indebtedness, communications, energy production control see http://aqicn.org/map/world/ to get a sense of the
poorest air quality levels.
Spain has a national complaints system. Whether a customer is unhappy with service from his local petrol station or the service
from a solicitor there is one system. A complaint is investigated by government. There is customer service in Spain. Britain has “Freedom of Information”.
Standardisation, unified approach against tax evasion, complaints procedure, freedom of information. Four big examples where adoption by the EU would demonstrate
across the Europe the unelected beaurocrat’s contribution to the improvement of the ordinary european quality of life. Has the EU published accounts that enables EU citizens to
understand how and where their money is spent?
One subscriber has quoted that the UK needs the EU more than the EU needs the UK. Ask Merkle how the EU will fill the gap left by the UK.
Where will europaen farmers send their produce. Currently, there is no food shortage in the UK. I buy tomatoes from Holland, fruit from France and Spain.
Danish bacon is still on the shelves. The driver for opening up borders is not that it is 100% medically safe, but rather, the tourist industry - across all of Europe. In the south of Granada
are hectacres after hactacres of olive groves. acres of plastic growing tomatoes underneath, advocado, artichokes, citrus and mango groves,
small holding after small holding harvesting three crops with alliums, brassicas, capsicums, legumes, potatoes. But,tourism makes up at least
40% of the economy.
There are wrongs in Europe and globally. The biggest is probably the wealth gap between the top 0.5% and average earners. The pandemic has brought some of those wrongs to the surface.
I hope that unity, insisting on accountability, transparency, equality will deliver.
You say you want a revolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it’s evolution
Well you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Don’t you know you can count me out
Don’t you know it’s gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you got a real solution
Well you know
We’d all love to see the plan
You ask me for a contribution
Well you know
We’re doing what we can
But when you want money for people with minds that hate
All I can tell you is brother you have to wait
Don’t you know it’s gonna be alright
Alright Alright
You say you’ll change the constitution
Well you know
We all want to change your head
You tell me it’s the institution
Well you know
You better free your mind instead
But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao
You ain’t going to make it with anyone anyhow
Don’t you know know it’s gonna be alright
Alright Alright
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This is about the only part of your essay I could read as the rest is so badly formatted on my screen it’s impossible to follow.
Germany does not need a Britain as the British newspapers suggested they do. British customers will still want prestige German cars and high class washing machines but they will now have to pay more for them. That’s not a victory for Brexit. The British government will not want their customers to buy prestige German cars they will want them to buy from manufacturers in Britain to ease the balance of trade deficit they are facing. (I almost typed British cars by mistake) Buying cars made in Britain will help to keep a few jobs going, it’s just a shame that most of the profits will be going to the owners in India, Japan and Germany. Mind you that’s if, and it’s a big if, BMW keep Mini production in Britain. The problems that new customs procedures will cause to their ‘just in time’ manufacturing system is likely to be the final bail in that coffin.
Keep posting, I enjoy a good laugh now and again. 
Perhaps next time I will even be able to read it.
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Yes, but when belonging to EEA/EFTA - which is very much ‘common market’ without poliltical integration or the Euro - was proposed, Brexiters said it was incompatible with a proper Brexit.
The EU is not “trying to impose EU rules even though the UK has left the club”: it’s simply saying if you want the trade deal, you have to agree a level playing field. You can’t say “we don’t accept you have any right to demand that our medicines are safe, but you have to let us export them freely”.
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In fact each time something was propsed the Brexiteers rejected it and moved the goalpost a little further towards no deal - thus the language gradually changed from pre-referendum where “soft Brexit” meant EEA/EFFTA to now where “soft Brexit” is a bare bones FTA and the ERG don’t even want that.
I’m sorry Robert - if you supported Brexit you own all of this, how does it feel to have been part of the movement which, ultimately, will destroy the UK?
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Oh Robert supports Brexit all right.
To the extent that he has previously messaged James suggesting that I should stop referring to it as Brexshit in case I end up suffering the same fate as Jo Cox.
Wow I’m surprised that his membership of SF survived that one.
Robert - if you are going to make personal death threats like that please fuck off, and when you get to wherever you have fucked off to, please start there and fuck off some more.
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