Reminds me of the quotation which went something like this (and was by or attributed to an American): “We fought the first two World Wars in Europe and we’ll fight the third there if you let us.”
Having written it, I have no idea where it came from - maybe someone like Orwell made it up?
I don’t think the Yanks have been involved beyond sending weapons, training troops over the preceding years and sharing HUMINT/ELINT with the Ukrainians.
The Independent article was paywalled, but just found this:
https://raymcgovern.com/2022/12/09/common-sense-from-the-independent-uk/
Thanks Geof, I agree with that assessment and I’ve ordered the book. 
I note the ‘(!)’ after the McGovern headline. 
Sadly, me too 
Britain may already be considered to have boots on the ground in Ukraine
Informative videos within the article
I’m not too sure of the wisdom of « Loose lips » Magowan in broadcasting it 
Then again starting WW3 may be the Tories cunning plan and only option to divert attention from problems at home 
Anyway, US embassies are, to the best of my knowledge, guarded by marines so presumably the US had boots on the ground as well.
However, I don’t I don’t like the sound of “with a high level of political and military risk". Who are these people deciding to take these risks?
Problem is, this is no middle-of-nowhere Falklands islands and Russia is no Argentina.
Surely not a thing we can do as events unfold but maybe we should plant more fruit and veggies this spring. If we’re still here
All in favour of the Patriot systems, less so the precision bombs.
Here is investigative reporting at its very best
Harrowing video evidence of the absolute truth. Not propaganda because there is no need for propaganda where this is the reality.
I am moved by the NYT journalists’ dedicated and fearless investigations to get to the truth, and for that truth to get justice for the Ukrainians.
I think they are trying to document as much as possible, as fast as possible before evidence is lost. War crimes to be prosecuted need the names and proof of the accused.
I have a lot of admiration for reporters and photographers who go to war zones and report back so that we understand. They are brave and some lose their lives in the process. I believe that what they see also takes something of a toll on their psyches.
I’m amazed at how far the human species will go to achieve justice. The other night I watched on TV how UK policemen brought to justice a man who had stabbed and raped a teenage girl 30 years ago – a cold case investigation. It brought to the policemen involved and the families affected, justice and closure, but it came at the expense of a life-changing event that none of them can or will forget.
As a species, we have a long way to go to prevent atrocities of all kinds from happening.
No, I agree Susannah, there’s no question of that. IMO Malachy Browne’s integrity is beyond question. For me, it just means that a halt to this madness has to be the number one priority for all our leaders. Then the task of calling to account can commence.
That would only work if there were an international authority with the power to order countries to obey it and to bring leaders of nations before a court of law. There is no such authority, and the war cannot stop until one side or the other has admitted defeat. If there were negotiations and Putin were allowed to keep what Russia now holds, it is inconceivable that they would abide by agreements and not work to annex more. I cannot see Ukraine having a lasting hope for peace if anything other than a resounding Russian defeat is the outcome.
Obviously this will cost many, many more lives, but there is no turning back if Ukraine is to have a future as an independent nation.
If Russia wants peace, let them withdraw their troops - no matter the amount of provocation, real or invented for propaganda that they have endured, they are THE aggressor here.
Or, let the Kremlin fall into an earthquake crevass, politburo and all.
Having such a capability wouldn’t be any deterrent to tyrants IMO. It is the perpetrators that need to be chased down and made examples of, no matter how long it takes. Hopefully, there’s more chance of making a field commander think twice than a megalomaniac.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on who the aggressor is. While what Putin has done could never be justified in any way, it was the West (read the US) that pushed the mad dog to bite with 32 years “aggression” or let us call it expansion.
NATO 1990
Over the last 32 years, Germany has reunified and all the former Warsaw Pact countries have joined NATO. Three countries that were once part of the Soviet Union — Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania — have joined NATO as well.
NATO 2020
Souce: CNBC May 2022.
What would the US have done if instead Mexico and Canada had joined the Warsaw Pact? The Cuban Missile Crisis can inform us on that. For me this is just so obviously yet another US foreign policy blunder, that civilians elsewhere pay the price for. I don’t have to list the many others for you, including Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and lately they left Afghanistan in the lurch. Billons of dollars spent, millions of lives ruined. They support the foul Saudi regime and apartheid Israel. As a layman with no particular insight I don’t think post WWII US foreign policy has been very successful 
All my instincts, personal associations and relationships make me want to see the US as the good guys, their role in WWII, the Marshal Plan, the Donna Reed show (because let’s face it Hollywood has surely shaped our views too) but, I’m sorry, my days of seeing the US as an unmitigated force for good are over.
I don’t think Putin will withdraw his troops and I don’t think Ukraine is in as secure a situation as we are led to believe. I believe the annexation of Crimea was always going to happen after Bush (and the evil bastards behind him) pushed for Ukraine to join NATO. So, that’s gone. I believe the ethnicity of the Donbas region is debatable and it should be left to the people there to decide, not Moscow nor Kyiv.
As for the defeat of Russia, what does that look like ? Russian troops kicked out of Donbas?
Despite the heroic efforts of the Ukrainian army (see article below) is an amphibious assault really feasible against fortified trenches with fallback positions, up to a 10:1 superiority in artillary and close air cover. I don’t know, but surely the cost in lives would be dreadful. Plus I suspect that a cornered mad dog with nuclear weapons isn’t going to let that happen.
So, I don’t think there will be a definitive “defeat” of Russia and trying to pursue that objective will just end in more human suffering, maybe even on a global scale.
I believe, and have done for a long time, that the only sensible and practical approach now is for our leaders is to work for peace, I believe Macron and Scholz are doing that. I think Sunak is right to keep his head down, given the number of armchair warriors amongst his MPs. I wish Biden would, while continuing to support all of Ukraines defensive needs, increase his focus on peace ASAP. Until he does I cannot help but feel there is an element of the US fighting a proxy war on our continent from the safety of theirs. If it all goes pear-shaped Europe pays the price.
Depressing, isn’t it? 
Happy Christmas 
The West has to continue supporting Ukraine otherwise Putin will ignore any peace initiatives, the fact that he has now acknowledged that the ‘special operation’ is actually a war is a small first step towards peace.
