Very sensible, pragmatic suggestion IMO, Zelenskyy should stop the killing, move on and protect Ukraine’s future. Putin won’t live forever and who know’s what can be negotiated peacefully when he’s gone. Plus, if Trump gets in the Ukraine is stuffed.
This is an interesting turn up - I reckon if Trump gets in next year they can kiss American support goodbye.
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Probably more a case of no one having any new thoughts to post.
Nevertheless I’ll try…
For me it’s a hopeful sign that Putin’s further cracking down on groups as disparate as soldiers’ wives and LGBTetc’s.
If all was well in his world, he could ignore these groups.
I’ll be more blunt. Zelenskyy should have cut a deal, abandoned Crimea and the bits of Donbas already lost which they will never het back, thus stop the killing, in return for admission to NATO to prevent further Soviet, sorry… Russia agression. Too late now, the show’s moved on. The Ukrainian hubris that I’ve detected in Zelensky and other Ukrainian politicians may have undone them.
Ukraine (and everyone else) acquiesced over the invasion of Crimea and that led to the present situation.
This tilme the West has to remain united in order to repel Putin. With so much repression deemed necessary to stifle comparatively minor dissent, the Russian government seems to perceive itself as being in a potentially insecure situation…
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IMO the reacquisition of Crimea, or more importantly the Russian navel base, was inevitable when Bush (no doubt pushed by Cheney, Rumsfeld et al) encouraged Ukraine to join NATO.
It’s the same bloody story every time. Israel wants us to believe that the curent horrible conflict started on Oct 7th. They want to ignore how they, the Israeli Government (and slack US foreign policy) are responsible for creating the environment for Oct 7th. That is also true in Ukraine too, though US foreign policy is probably 90% to blame in that case.
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All we need to know about the Ukraine war’s end game is written in this headline
Sadly, even with an exemplary fighting spirit, an army cannot win without bullets, against even an incompetent foe, with an endless supply of both bullets and cannon fodder.
As the Nazis found out eighty years ago.
IMHO Zelenskyy needs to dial down the jingoism and dial up the pragmatism. Who knows what can be recovered when Putin is gone? Alternatively what may be lost without NATO membership.
It’s very hard to imagine anything could be gained after Putin were to eventually go, his stay in office being considerably prolonged by a virtual victory in Ukraine (as it would be spun). NATO membership might be gained, but just as Crimea and Donbass was a sacrifice for Ukraine, so might Ukraine be a sacrifice for a future NATO.
I can only see a very bleak future for them following your suggested plan.
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This is what’s unimaginable IMO, for example, the US creating death and mayhem in the M/E, Brexit, Trump’s success, Trump’s success again 
The victims of an attempted genocide perpetrating another genocide as the world looks on. So, why is waiting out until Putin’s gone not an option?
NATO is a bridge too far for Putin, if Ukraine is in then what’s left of it has some hope. What’s gone is gone and the jingoistic elements of the government should stop wasting lives. Let’s not forget Ukraine is a dodgy corrupt state in its own right. It’s only by comparison to Russia that it has any credibility. They are not really good candidates for EU membership at all.
Cough, cough, Turkey 
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Indeed. Once again, it’s only the bloody US that wants Turkey in the EU, not for our benefit but for their, undoubtedly flawed. view of their interests. The one thing I will say for the lunatic Erdoğan is he has correctly called out Netanyahu as a war criminal.
You were once a senior manager John, of necessity gifted with insight and strategy. Many of the things you list are very very imaginable indeed. I don’t understand why you can’t see this.
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“Exec” if you don’t mind 
During my career, to my shame, I was too focussed on business (though I never missed an important family event) to think about politics. Now I’ve had the time to read, research and I’ve discovered I don’t much like homo sapiens.
There are two things that amongst others frustrate me on this . One is that the past is forgotten so quickly that the arseholes that caused the shit get away with it, E.G. Blair, Bush, Netanyahu, et al , the second is… news attention span… kids are being blown to bits as I type, but nobody gives a shit.
Not so, people do give a shit, just not those in power and running the countries 
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No Griffen, if we gave a shit we’d be on the streets. The gilet jaunes mobilised for example over goodness knows what, but nobody I have met in the last six weeks has said to me isn’t it dreadful that women and children are being slaughtered. Nobody really cares.
Start a movement then where you are, it has to start some place, the gilet jaunes started with two people.
I ought to explain briefly my deleted post, lest it be thought to be a criticism of someone else. I have just gone through, with the very small Marie-Christine, the extremely difficult and bad tempered job of washing Fran’s hair. It should be sufficient to know that she most definitely did not want it. Thus, in my confusion and alternating extreme sadness and hysterical laughter, I completely forgot which thread I was in.
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To borrow a phrase, people are bastard covered bastards with bastard filling. Except those that aren’t.
I can’t believe you were a senior manager exec without having noticed, in fact to have reached those heights in the IT industry you may have been like that yourself (said without malice). Good on you for putting your family ahead.
There have been a lot of people on the streets, but no-one apart from SB and the EDL in the UK really seemed to care much. There are also significant numbers who think that women and children being blown to bits is fair enough, because they didn’t protest against Hamas being in charge. There will also be a lot who have very mixed feelings, caused by the events of 7th October and the completely unspeakable brutality performed on peaceful and unsuspecting people.
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