Theresa May’s Brexit Deal Rejected By MPs For A Second Time

(James Higginson) #1

(Jane Williamson) #2

We are in an unparalleled situation.
Normally a Prime Minister losing two votes by such a huge majority would have to resign.
The Tories are split and if she goes there would be mayhem.
Corbyn is doing his level best to ignore his Party’s Conference call for a People’s Vote and Tom Watson has set up a middle of the road collection of MP’s within Labour.
Vibce Cable has been an lacklustre leader of the Lib Dems.
I have tried to donate to the Independent Group, but they won’t take my money because I live outside the UK,
I have sent message after message, but they must be overwhelmed as I cannot get a reply, even though I want to help them.
The Bill going through Parliament to restore voting rights to those who have been outside UK for more than fifteen years is, eventually, making progress and there should be no further General Election or Referendum without their inclusion.
When will we see the Red Queen calling “Off with their heads”?

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(norman clark) #3

‘Unparalled situation’ is surely putting it mildly? As a now steadily losing interest observer, I confess to having not understood a word of this last entangled vote. I am not surprised the EU side is looking on with open mouths, wondering if the UK has gone stark raving mad.

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(Caroline Gough) #4

The UK has gone raving mad. Hold onto your hats everybody and no deal here we come. What’s more I think there are a number of people in the UK who actually want this.

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(Jane Williamson) #5

Stick with it Norman.
We may get Brexit through apathetic voters,

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(Timothy Cole) #6

It’s not the voting public at fault but the politicians who are trapped in a ‘bubble’ and can’t see the damage this uncertainty is causing in the real world. After the vote leaders of business both big and small were in despair that this sorry saga is likely to go on and on without any real prospect of an end.

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(Jane Williamson) #7

It is both.
There seems to be a strong feeling that many voters are fed up and don’t want to hear any more and are disengaging despite the appalling consequences.
The politicians are putting Party before the Country.
I am totally surprised how many politicians seem to be mind readers saying that they know the will of the people.
I am sure that there were many reasons people voted Leave, not least the illegal manipulation of Vote Leave and Be Leave.


(Timothy Cole) #8

The voting public’s job was done three years ago Jane, it is up to parliament to sort this mess out now.

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(norman clark) #9

Nice thought Timothy, but there seems little evidnece they know how to go about it, is there?

I think Jane’s ppint is well made, although I also don’t feel a second referendum would do anything much other than inflame both sides yet again. From what I see there is probably a similar majory vote to Remain as was the reverse in the first one, but both were or could be still be insufficient to change anything.
The country certainly seems just as divided as ever - if not more so, and I was reading the LBC listerner’s comments and noticed, not for the first time, the Brexiteers call for vlolence if they don’t get their way. I may have missed it but I haven’t seen calls for that from the Remain side.

This Happy Isle bit seems far away doesn’t it? The Irish troubles also seem to be looming, so the ramifications are getting wider and deeper as far as I can tell. Never mind Farage, Cash, Johnson, Rees-Smugg are having a ball aren’t they - coining it in?

Which of these seriously could be considered the next PM? Indeed could a majority Government even get elected at this time if a General Election were held? I couldn’t even see a Coalition one being formed at this time, which is truly surprising in Britain?


(norman clark) #10

It is now hard to see anything else transpiring. I am sure even the EU Member States must be wondering if they want such a fractured country back in (assuming they leave). Britain was never the most comfortable 'fit ’ at the best of times, how could they feel comfortable about it now the and let’s use the word) Hatred of the EU is so overt, by half the population?


(Paul Flinders) #11

Rejecting no-deal as the next step should be a slam-dunk. The Tories who voted against TM’s deal will surely not vote against no-deal, however the rest of those who voted against yesterday should vote to reject no-deal; Labour, SNP and the other minority parties should be on-side to block no-deal and, obviously, moderate Tories who supported TM yesterday should also vote to block no-deal.

The interesting vote is Thursday - it will take a bit of courage to vote to ask the EU to extend A50 so I am really not sure where sentiment will lie.

Of course there is much talk that TM wants  an extension but not to take part in EU elections giving us a final her deal vs catastrophy meaningless vote towards the end of May.

There is an irony to her continued and vehement objection to asking the UK people again where the only plan she has for getting her deal ratified is to continually ask parliament until they are browbeaten to give the answer she wants.


(Bob Sivell) #12

I recently heard from a friend of mine who worked at the Home Office at the same time as TM…“arrogant & fucking useless, even then” were his words…


(Paul Flinders) #13

That description covers a lot of MPs

Rumour is that the government is going to whip against rejecting no-deal - WTF

Probably won’t change much - I don’t think the whips have much control at the moment


(Caroline Gough) #14

You make a good point Norman. We’ve gone beyond the point of no return depressing as that thought is. When we are finally out of the EU of course everyone will blame the bad négociations for all the things they lay at the EUs door.


(Peter Bird) #15

I think we need to remind ourselves of what Cameron acheived (or not acheived) in his pre-vote negotiations with the EU. The deal he secured was obviously lacking in many areas and had the EU ministers considered the possibility on a ‘NO’ vote then more concessions, especially on immigration would have been granted.
The EU has to take it’s share of te blame for this fiasco.

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(anon82447983) #16

We already had a good deal. Cameron was posturing and playing to UKIP sentiments. Maybe given the anti EU populist sentiment in the UK the EU could have been more tactful in their response but given how utterly rude vast swathes of UK press are constantly about the EU any response of theirs would have been spun negatively anyway.

Also (please excuse my frustration becoming apparent) THE UK CHOSE NOT TO EXERCISE THE IMMIGRATION CONTROLS THEY HAD!!!


(Mat Davies) #17

It is certainly worth watching the BBC2 programme concerning Europe that was on last month.

It explains so much of what has happened in Europe of the past 10 years.


(Timothy Cole) #18

I thought TM said last night that her MP’s had a ‘free vote’ on the ‘no-deal’ motion?


(Paul Flinders) #19

She did, but - as they say - 24 hours is a long time in politics, heck even 12 hours is a long time at the moment.

However it was just a rumour I saw on Twitter this morning, haven’t seen any reliable source to back it up.

Edit: Apparently she has been “told” not to whip the party.


(norman clark) #20

Sorry Peter, I simply don’t accept this. The Uk had one of the largest groups of MEPs in the EU almost from Day One - and they also had the slimey Farage the White Ant. The UK wanted more and more than the EU as a Group could ever considered giving without just stopping being the EU - which of course is the reality of the Brexiteers - and coincidentally(?) the Americans, who equally are now providing a very comfortable living to Farage - payoff perhaps?
No, the EU has set out its stall of 26 countries and refused to bow further to the already unbalanced relationship with the UK. No if anything the EU has failed by not being stro ng enough to tell recalitrant countries (Britain, Poland, Hungary etc., to simply sod-off if you don’t like the rules of the Club you voluntarily joined.
The insults have all been from the British side and not from the EU.