Caroline, it is already happening and probably inevitable.
Hi again Norman,
Yes, I agree but i’m suggesting that maybe now the EU regrets not having been more amenable to the UK cause. Knowing what they have seen from the UK recently and bearing in mind they will do just about anything to have the UK as close trading partners. I think if the EU and UK were negotiating the case as it was pre-vote the EU who, in my opinion underestimated the level of anger on immigration in the UK (plus other gripes) would now be happy to make more concessions, rather than the peacemeal agreement they accorded Mr Cameron
Peter, I don’t see how the EU could have given more to the UK. Least of all whilst trying to hold to its four basic structures. Whether people agree or not with these is up to them, but the country as a whole voted to join the EU - fact. Stayed in it for 40 years plus, so pretty hard to believe all was evil don’t you think?
It needs repeating and stressing in my view that the valid immigration point your raise affected the UK least of almost all the Members, as they never signed up to Schenghen and have had their borders TOTALLY under their control all the way through. There has NEVER been an open-door to the UK via the EU - the situation in Calais shows this clearly where French police have been frontline in ‘protecting the Holy Land of Britain’.
Note this was clearly against the principles of the EU at the very least and they were allowed to get away with it. Yes, France and other countries have also played fast and loose with such Rules and Principles, which doesn’t make it any better or acceptable. Ditto - although not EU, Britain never accepted the Euro - right or wrong isn’t the point, the point being it was another smack against Europe generally. Human Rights? Staggeringly these rules were written BY the Brits and accepted as part of the EU Charter - only to find these under attack from the Brits themselves? How weird is that? Of course in British eyes it is not weird at all - simply the manifestation of British exceptionalism.
I have said this all along Britain cannot and will not belong to any Group, Club, Association - whatever, when it is not placed in the ‘top seat’. For too long the world has seemed to accept this post-Imperialst arrogance - why does a second-tier country like Britain have a seat of the Security Council of the UN - when a first-tier one like China does not?
Remember like others I was born into the Imperialist viewpoint of Britain, taught in schools where our superiority over the rest of humanity was displayed by the pink blocks on Wall Maps. Rudyard Kipling the ultimate Jingoist proclaimed how much better we were than those of a different skin hue.
British was Best! You remember this as well as I do. Do you really believe that this engendered good will? Not really - but it did engender often grudging respect. But that is NOT what Britain is today.
I have a very clear view of the EU, and in my time in Brussels I got to see a lot more of it up front and personal, and discuss it with students from around the world in the Business Schools I was privileged to teach in. For all its faults and there are several that I could note which others never do, the EU is respected around the world.
Despite the Daily Heil and garbage Press of the UK defecating on it with monotonous regularity, countries are still lining up to join it - yes with an eye to the main chance, and why not as this has been the idea of it from the start - a strong Europe, not militarily but as a force for good and for peace. I think that is worth fighting for - many Brits do not agree and want out.
I personally feel the EU should make it easy for countries to leave - provided they meet the financial obligations they have signed up to. Hungary, POland and even Britain should be directed to the exit door, without ANY discussions of any Deals before they go. Recent figures show the EU deficit when all is worked out show its budget will be negatively affected by some €130 million per week - and Finland has even offered to cover that amount! Little Finland? Sorry Britain but you really are not as important as you think you are. If net recipient countries like Poland and Hungary were booted out there would be little negative effct at all.
Yes you have an effective army, but so does France, but the EU is NOT and has never proclaimed itself to be a Military Force- that’s what it was created for to avoid military ‘solutions’. Yet we do see the world changing and led by British Nationalism (exceptionalism) which could force the EU to reconsider that in order to survive. Again we know that the British historically have never found it acceptable to ‘take orders’ from a ‘foreigner’, so with Britain on board that idea was always dead in the water.
As so many others have pointed out B ritain sadly is NOT European, or even International. It is and remains an island with ‘island mentality’ where pulling up the drawbridge and pretending the outside world does not exist is still seemingly an option.
I agree in principle with you that the EU overall is saddened by the departure of the UK, but I also think there are more than a few thinking ‘good riddance’ However you will retain the goodwill and support of Italy, Hungary, Poland and a few other populist inclined Nations, so good luck with that bunch.
21 Likes
We were in the Club for forty years.
We know the rules, why should we think that they should be broken, especially when we are leaving?
Sheer arrogance, that is why.
Bravo, Norm ! 
Fantastic post!
1 Like
Bit of a rant I suppose, but it is one of the few things I fervently believe in.
5 Likes
Good rant though 
1 Like
and so eloquently put…
1 Like
Is it available on catch up? What was the programme called please?
All 3 of the programs are well worth watching.
Thank you.
A tous,
I’m a Francophile residing in England but having lived previously in France and still often visit.
I read these pages frequently with enjoyment but I am amazed, staggered and bemused at a great many of those comments.
It seems that those of you who have effectively deserted these shores for the French dream have this innate belief that the great British public should be expected to do all in their power to protect, nourish and defend you guys by, in the first instance reversing Brexit or at the very least make it oh so easy for you to come and go as you please. You despise those that voted leave for no other reason than that it effects your ability to flit backwards and forwards at will or makes it more difficult to reside in France.
You choose to live in France and yet expect us to behave in a way that suits only you.
If you experience difficulties in that direction don’t blame the British, look to the French…they are calling the shots in that respect.
3 Likes
Utter bollocks Jeremy.
(PS it would have been more ‘polite’ to start your diatribe with à tous et à toutes - less sexist and more inclusive! A handy tip for ‘Francophiles’)
9 Likes
I don’t live in France and my interest is in the UK having the best it can. To my mind Brexit won’t deliver that
10 Likes
I live in France and if I never set foot in the bigoted insignificant little island off the coast of Europe called England, it will be too soon.
3 Likes
Remarks like that are why treat Brexiteers with the contempt they deserve.
6 Likes
In my case you are so wrong. I have only just moved to france and i know that whilst it may be more tricky to get through all the paperwork it is doable. My only real fear is that a limit may be put on transferring funds so that i can live.
I despise leave voters because my children have effectively had the country they live in made less safe because of the widespread xenophobia which has been given free reign since the referendum.
I despise leave voters because they have caused the uk to be perceived as unwelcoming and having an island mentality.
I despise the leave voters because they’ve made the uk potentially poorer and reduced employment prospects for their own citizens.
I despise the leave voters because they’ve put the NHS under threat from racketeers in the form of US corporations.
I despise leave voters because they are going to deprive my children of the opportunities and freedoms that the rest of Europe can enjoy in the name of regaining a sovereignty which was never lost.
I despise leave voters for not having the guts to examine themselves and admit that they really are mostly gullible little Englanders with a penchant for right wing newspapers.
I don’t despise all leave voters though, just the ones that try to justify their actions by blaming a whole forum because it’s easier than admitting Brexit is a really bad thing for the UK.
10 Likes
Of course we expect to live as we have been living, just like you did when you were here.
3 Likes