Thunberg, anyone?

I agree Pete that she is looking run ragged and in need of a break…

I’m no expert either and as always just collating information from many different sources and then “feeling” into what resonates and what doesn’t…and allowing my heart to guide me…

I think ‘war’ also leads to the displacement of people and in many cases also people and populations trapped into poverty hopelessness and despair whilst the talking heads in suits do very little but talk bollocks and nothing is ever actually achieved to alleviate the suffering…

I’ve just started reading through this…I’m nowhere near through it yet…

http://www.wrongkindofgreen.org/2019/01/21/the-manufacturing-of-greta-thunberg-for-consent-the-inconvenient-truth-behind-youth-cooptation/

The 1 simply means it is the first dose, it isn’t the name of the vaccine. She’s refusing diphtheria, polio and tetanus as well as the others?

It is likely that your daughter, in a rich country, in a clean environment (water etc), with a well-fed infant, surrounded by vaccinated well-fed infants, can see that herd immunity confers so much protection that the risk of vaccination is statistically higher. Probably it does just as long as the population doesn’t change in composition and the children don’t leave that bubble.

Not all infants are in those highly favourable circumstances, actually I’d say most aren’t.

My main job when I worked for a well-known group of French doctors in Pakistan was vaccinating babies of displaced populations who had access to food and clean water because otherwise infant mortality ran at about 40%. Those are the ones that die, because you also have the cohort who end up brain-damaged or paralysed as a consequence of eg polio or measles or meningitis or whooping cough, and usually die later, too old to be put into the infant mortality stats.

40%.
2 out of 5.

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I believe they have a very definite clue. I suggest the “reality” of what they are protesting about has been pretty clear and straightforward for some considerable time. We are destroying the planet and their futures with our modern way of living and our so-called “leaders” are doing nothing about it, so they are taking action.
A very different “reality” to what was happening at the time of the referendum.

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These children have been to school and learned to read, had science classes and hopefully have been taught ‘critical thinking’ and fact checking.

Coming to the conclusion that the planet is in danger.

We old fogies should congratulate them, hope that there are some future scientists among the lot and in the meantime accept that ‘outdated’ economic models are partly to blame for the state Earth is in.

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My comment was about those children who were protesting; I agree that some may have “a definite clue” but, as is the case with protest demonstrations generally, many protestors protest without having a clue about whatever the issue may be and are “encouraged” to protest by those with more extreme views. To go off at a tangent, throughout my adult life I have always thought that it is illogical to believe the Earth will continue existing ad infinitum. Maybe “climate change” will be the end…eventually; or nuclear war or whatever.

My reply to your comment is the same as mine to Sue Jarvis: “My comment was about those children who were protesting; I agree that some may have “a definite clue” but, as is the case with protest demonstrations generally, many protestors protest without having a clue about whatever the issue may be and are “encouraged” to protest by those with more extreme views. To go off at a tangent, throughout my adult life I have always thought that it is illogical to believe the Earth will continue existing ad infinitum. Maybe “climate change” will be the end…eventually; or nuclear war or whatever”.

Of course life on earth as we know it will not carry on as infinitum. I am not saying this is what you are suggesting but just because we may be squished by a giant asteroid at any momemt does not mean we should live in bad faith and not create a positive and sustainable future for the next generation.

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Yes, that is exactly what I’m suggesting as stated in my comment. I intended addressing your last sentence but have decided against doing that.

Sadly Bettina, that is not an insignificant amount of Greta’s anger. That older generations are looking to their grandchildren and great grandchildren to clear up the mess we have created. It’s a bit like some drunken, profligate old gambler handing on his beautiful, ruined castle saddled with a mound of debts and saying to his grandchildren “you sort it out”. Not great!

Generally agree with the first part of this, Sue, but it’s perhaps a bit strong to say that our leaders are doing nothing, when they obviously are doing a lot, at a global and national level.

The problem is that the ‘crisis’ is progressing at an accelerated pace as indicated by current research evidence on the rate of ice-melt; and the major adjustments to reduced fossil-fuel consumption are going to disrupt ‘ordinary life’ to an extent that will have unprecedented consequences for us all.

Figuring out how to manage those is a terrifying prospect for any political strategist.

Show me.

http://www.ipcc.ch/


https://scholar.google.fr/scholar?q=uk+initiatives+on+climate+change&hl=en&as_sdt=0&as_vis=1&oi=scholart#d=gs_qabs&u=%23p%3D4IgQluJnEgMJ

Surely I don’t have to do this for you, Sue, when there’s a huge harvest of reliable contemporary evidence at your fingertips?:thinking::joy:

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Ah! Assembly on climate change - if you want to kick something into touch, form committees, set up market research projects, have citizen consultations. I’m not sure David Attenborough would agree that “they are doing a lot”.

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I get it, research is useless, consultation in the industries footling, community consultation a waste of time.

So you’ll straight away abandon your job, your home, your family to take charge of mobilising the citizenry to do the same, build dykes to stop the floods, plant forests to soak up greenhouse gas, build rickshaws to replace the ambulances, erect windmills in every garden.

Don’t be soft, Sue.:stuck_out_tongue:

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I’m not. I know a little about market research, having run my own company. All too often, sadly, when management and politicians were afraid to make decisions that were staring them in the face they said “let’s do some market research”. (And we did really good work.)

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I have no doubt that the climate is changing. As it has since the dawn of time. However, I have read reports that volcanoes produce more co2 than any other source as well. So, should we start looking at ways to block active volcanoes.? 450,000 years ago, co2 levels were around 20% higher than they are today yet average temperature was around 20 deg’s lower than today. So how did that come about then? we don’t know and so all I can say is, 'be careful what you wish for". You have no idea what you are going to reap for your efforts. Besides. Mother nature has provided us with oil and coal. So why should we not use it then? Of course we must manage the use of our resources, that is just good housekeeping. but to ban everything is bit silly, imo. I remember as a young lad, the tree huggers said that paper bags should be banned because we were chopping down too many trees to make them and that we should rather use plastic bags. Well, look where that has gotten us. There is always more to consider than just climbing on a bandwagon and even the, we generally can not ever come up with a proper solution. We just cannot seem to think of all the possible results of our efforts. I think we should let mother nature react as she thinks best and we should then adjust and adapt as necessary.
My tuppence worth.

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Precisely. Politicians can’t be teachers, engineers, psychotherapists, policemen, pilots, farmers, midwives, markets researchers etc. all rolled into one.

They have to inform themselves about these specialties, collate information, and debate it in committees. You help facilitate that expertly so why knock it and suggest leaders do nothing?

Seen any energy-generating moteurs éoliens or solar panel farms in your neck of the woods lately?

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In a word - nope.

In more words - 450,000 years ago atmostpheric CO2 levels were about half of today’s

A good tuppenceworth…the pal in London with the posh kitchen, a clever bloke organising essential bits of the NHS, wrote something almost exactly in tune with your thoughts…today…you might even be him, with a nom de plume and a fake selfie. His added POV was, and I think he was right, is that the planet has too many people anyway, so from ‘the planets POV’ a bit of global overheating is no bad thing… Curiously, also in tune with various fundamentalists, quoting this or that bit of bible, about how everyone is going to fry, except for the very few that Jesus will scoop up into his arms and keep safe. That’s a kind of mythological representation of effects of earth warming. It’ll be up to that bunch, to repopulate, using a bit more sense, than our lot…

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More “nope”'s I’m afraid - about 1% of the annual CO2 is released by volcanoes.

From Scientific American

If I were you I’d try to read more reliable reports.

It doesn’t appear to be worth that much.

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