Titre de séjour and being européen

General Discussion
1

Hello
My first posting here and I’m looking for advice.
I’m an Irish citizen living and working in France the last 14years
Three years ago I moved from Paris to Allier and struggled(still struggling) to get work
Fin brief, I managed to get some part time off jobs here and there but not much
It was the first time I had asked for social assistance as my landlord said my revenue or lack there of would be suffice
My dossier was passed around and quickly forgotten about as a stagier moved offices and my dossier then had to be redone
Add to that at this point I’m pregnant.
Still working where I can but not earning much.
Thé caf finally gave me my prime de naissance 2weeks before my son was born because I created a drama in their office
They also gave me two months prime d’activité which they now want refunded as my dossier still isn’t finalised
The latest insult to injury is that they now want a titre de séjour, they never asked for one before and my dossier has been “processed for 15months now.
Ive explained that I’m européen
Apparently if I want any child benefit or assistance with childcare I must have one

Is this right?
I’m at my wits end
The rules and requests change every time I speak to them

My living situation is precarious at best
My landlord hasn’t repaired my heating system for over a year now and I’ve no hot water for most of that time
I’m refusing to pay rent, initially because of the broken heating and now because I just can’t afford it.
For a little baby that’s 4months old, this isn’t healthy

I wrongly thought that paying into a system meant that it would take care of you when you needed help
Apparently not
But I’m completely buggered now as I can’t have childcare until my dossier is completed and I can’t work without childcare
So I don’t know what to do

2

It sometimes happens that CAF asks for a titre de séjour if a person"s residency status looks complicated and they feel it is outside their competence to make a decision. They need confimation that a person is legally resident before they can pay state benefits to that person. The teason they want you to apply for a carte de séjour is because they want the préfecture to make the decision, because that is the prefecture’s job not CAF’s job. Basically EU freedom of movement sets out certain conditions that EU citizens must meet in order to qualify for legal residence status in another EU state, essentially in order to qualify for permanent residence they must have consistently met the conditions over a five year period, for whatever their status is such as worker, or self supporting inactive, or student. So for instance if a person claims to have worker status but their records show that recently the person has not consistently been in work, it might be necessary to look back over a longer period of time in order to find a five year period where they were consistently in work and grant a carte de séjour based on that period. The préfecture can do that but CAF can not.

Then again it sometimes happens that CAF gets confused and asks for things that it does not need and should not be asking for.

It is difficult to know which it is in this case but if they are insisting, it may save time in the end to do as they ask and apply for a CDS.

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3

It just seems wrong as I have to find 300€ from somewhere to pay for a card which would give me rights that I should have without

Sometimes you’re better off dead in this country

4

To the best of my knowledge EU citizens do not have to pay for a carte de séjour, it is issued completely free of charge.

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5

I agree there - I had one pre-Brexit and it was completely free…

6

Why not visit your Mairie and ask to speak with someone who can help/advise.

not everyone of them is as helpful as others… (ours it excellent) but they should be able to point you in the right direction.

4 years ago, we had an Irish family arrive in our commune. CPAM etc etc were brilliant… so I know it can and should work.

Best of luck.

7

I have an assistant social who is lovely but doesn’t know what to do with my dossier so I research for her and then she writes a letter on behalf and we go around in circles
She has told me that it’s far easier if I’m french which is really helpful

I’ve asked for another but she’s the only one for my village

The prefecture told me it’s 300€ for a titre de séjour
Actually 270€ something
Not quite 300€

8

Thanks for your responses
Im past luck and hope now

No point in any of it now
It’s going to take another few years probably to get sorted
Fingers crossed I get hit by a bus
So maddening

9

Nil desperandum, do not despair, and do not start seeing more problems than there are.
Being asked for a carte de séjour is not the end of the world.
Applying may be a little time consuming but there is no reason why it should take years. A month or two perhaps, and then the problem will be solved. And it will not cost you anything. for non EU applicants there is a charge but there is no charge for EU applicants. Perhaps the prefecture was not clear that you are an EU citizen.

" La délivrance de la carte Citoyen UE/EEE/Suisse - Séjour permanent - Toutes activités professionnelles est gratuite ."

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10

The TdS question/request is really common on paperwork - its pretty much a tick box for foreigners on anything to do with the health system. I found just politely in writing pointing out its not required for EU citizens fixed it - oddly my Bulgarian partner got a lot more you need a TdS than I did but again in every case they accepted she didn’t. It really is a tick box exercise - she still hasn’t got a TdS and still doesn’t need it.

11

I am a little bewildered.

As you’ve been living and working in France for 14 years. … surely you must be in the Tax system and the CPAM system from when you first arrived??
You must be in the records/computers somewhere… ???

No wonder you are feeling desperate…
Sounds like you need to speak to your Deputé… such folk are normally available quite regularly…

12

This is CAF though.
A young English acquaintance of mine encountered a similar issue many years ago in the days before Brexit. A lovely lad but feckless in those days. He worked briefly at our firm, then he left for another job, then he left that job too and carried on like that for a year or so. Then he found himself short of money and tried to claim benefits but he was knocked back because his work history looked so patchy, and like in this case CAF told to get a carte de séjour to prove he was legally resident and hence entitled to claim money from the state. In his case though he was refused the TdS because he had only been in France for a couple of years and during that time he had been out of work longer than he had been in work so they said he did not meet the criteria. In fact it was the best thing that could have happened to him because it gave him a wake up call, he realised he had to get his act together if he wanted to stay in France and after that he got a job and kept it and has done well for himself.
Clearly this is totally different from the situation here but it is why I suggested that CAF may, actually, be correct to ask for confirmation that a person is legally resident and is entitled to benefits. A carte de sejour proves this.

13

re the original poster… sounds like this has been going on for some years… and now needs someone who can “cut through the xxap” and get things sorted.

@MaryS Do you have a Carte Vitale ??? Do you make the Annual Declaration for French Tax purposes…??

14

I suspect they think you’re British Mary. You don’t need a titre de sejour as far as I know, all you need is your Irish passport. The vast majority of civil servants here are helpful but some, as everywhere, are inexperienced or ill informed, though a number do need a “drama” created to force them to make an effort.

Last year I was arranging my daughter’s wedding here, she and her hubby are Irish citizens. There are eight ladies that deal with marriage stuff in our local town, seven of them are lovely but the haughty idiot I got landed with on my final visit kept demanding documentation I knew was unnecessary. By causing a little scene I brought the skulking manager from his office. Initially he backed his staff member but I persisted and he asked her to show him the section with the requirements. He spotted that she was looking at Iceland, not Ireland. I accepted my victory with humility and an “everybody can make mistakes” when that was the last thing I was thinking. After that, as is so often the case, the haughty idiot became my new best friend and everything went swimmingly.

So, that was along way of saying that even though I know it will be very difficult, especially with a new baby, and I’m sure you’re tired and obviously stressed out, you need to fight your corner, preferably face to face. Make notes of everything, On DD day I spoke to XX about YY and they said… Build a paper trail of who said what and when and keep reminding them of it, especially the contradictions, when you see them.

I also suggest you contact the Irish Embassy by email and by phone. Don’t let them fob you off either, you are an Irish citizen that is not being treated as an EU citizen and you require their assistance. They will respond, though they may require a little prodding. Insist and prod vigorously if required.

I would also put a concise email together explaining your situation and how you are at the end of your tether and send it to Simon Coveney, Minister for Foreign Affairs, at his departmental minister@dfa.ie and his personal simon.coveney@oireachtas.ie addresses. His staff will pick it up and run with it. Coveney is a good, approachable man and I have used his office in the past when the Irish Embassy in Paris needed a kick up the backside to process some paperwork for my wife. He sorted out the Department of Transport and the Embassy and they were back full of sweetness and light within days.

Finally, please put the “run over by a bus” thoughts out of your head. I know it must be very difficult and there’s work to be done to sort your situation out, but in can be sorted out. You just need the right support and assistance to get it done.

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15

Would I be correct in thinking that if one way or another someone can prove they’ve been resident for over 10 years legally, which presumably they would have been if they had an EU passport, then they qualify as permanently resident already?

Also this may not be something that would yield what you need but is any help available from the father of your child? I gather the French administration can be quite efficient at helping you ensure a share of financial responsibility is taken by the other parent if there have been any difficulties getting this.

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16

Im sorry for being so disheartened
But administration here is driving me mental

It took 7 and a half years to have a carte vitale and that ended in a tribunal
Just because some bint wouldn’t accept the English to French translation of my bilingual Irish English birth cert
She wanted an Irish french translation despite letters from the embassy saying that they must accept the translation
The only person who could legally translate Irish to french I actually knew personally from my days playing with Paris gaels, she played for The Hague
I completely lost it when the bint wouldn’t accept her translation (big tampon « le Hague » on it) because it wasn’t on her list of translators

I feel like I’m back there again
As for baby’s father paying his bit
He tries and got completely screwed like many working in the arts the last few years so things are scary tight.
It’s also frustrating because he like so many think I’ve not ticked the right box or that I’ve made a mistake.
The only mistake I made was actually declaring what I earned being pregnant as I could have been paid cash in hand. I worked in 3different tax codes, msa agriculture, auto entrepreneur and Cesu doing home help.
And in 14years I have only been on chomage once and I didn’t use up the two years like I was advised to, I found work after 5months and started working again.

I feel like I’m being punished
My assistant social told me to stop working during my pregnancy as it’s would make my dossier easier to handle so I did and it hasn’t helped any, just put me in even greater financial difficulty.
Being blocked from accessing childcare really hurts as I just can’t win
Im tired of being cold, of diluting the baby’s milk, of the rules changing each time I speak to someone, and that someone always being different so you start from the begining again.

As for the prefecture thinking I’m British, yes they do as « its all the same » from the lovely officer that I spoke too when he quoted me the absurd amount of money for a carte de séjour

I have kept all my fiches de paye
All my impôts documents
I have a social security number
I have a carte vitale

I just don’t have the patience or strength for this shit anymore
It’s exhausting and it will take longer than it should as after 15months its still not sorted and I’m not sure what to do
I don’t have the means to pay for a carte de séjour, so I will try and tell them that I don’t have to pay for one as I’m européen but If that doesn’t work then what?
So frustrating

17

Carte de séjour d'un travailleur citoyen UE/EEE/Suisse | Service-Public.fr.

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Well, since you’ll be talking in French… to French people… there’s not a lot they can misunderstand… unless they can’t read…
The French Govt site clearly states that the Carte/Titre is FREE

Wave your Irish Passport at them… at anyone who thinks you are British…

You’ve been here long enough to warrant the permanent titre I reckon… and that’s free too!!

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Best of luck

18

Don’t try to tell them. Show them. Have the relevant pages in French from the links that people are giving you here. This is not you expressing your opinion. This is the French system and law. You have an Irish passport. Your are European. You DO NOT pay for a TdS.
Do you have a French friend / neighbour who could accompany you and fight your corner if needs be? Twice I have used my French teacher to get VERY angry with authority on my behalf. She was able to say things I was not - about how appallingly I was being treated by the French system and how badly it reflected on France and how ashamed she was to be French. You cannot say that - someone French can. And that gets people paying attention.

19

Ignore what I said above, this is clearly not the same situation as my young friend was in.
As advised stand your ground and enlist whatever help you can.

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20

Just a thought Mary - have you been talking to your doctor about how you feel? It may well be that you need some help that would enable you to face this difficult situation with more emotional and mental strength. If we are very run down and tired and have health issues it can be doubly hard to cope with intransigent bureaucracy.

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