Noblesse oblige 
I donāt think Iād have stuck around if it had been like this when I came here. Too many people think as the internet cloaks them they can be rude, or less truthful, or more truthful about their true beliefs than they normally are allowed to be.
The idea of this forum was a dinner party conversation, no? I can get plenty of the above elsewhere if I want it.
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Itās changed over the last few months - hope Iām not the cause. 
TBH Iām seeing this behaviour elsewhere too.
Just to stick my head above the parapet, isnāt the problem of people all having gone to similar institutions that it all becomes a chumocracy and people arenāt properly challenged or held to account.
Which is what appears to be happening in the UK media/political sphere.
On the other hand the atmosphere is utterly toxic 
.
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Yes, i think it has changed since real names went away.
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To return to the subject of illegal immigration, isnāt the real question, āShould people be allowed to benefit from committing an illegal actā?
Crossing the English Channel in a small boat is not only dangerous but is also for the most part illegal. So what is to be done with these people to ensure that they do not benefit from their illegal act ? Sending them to some other country whilst their application for admission to the UK is processed is one option, but then so is sentencing them to 5 or 10 years imprisonment for committing their crime.
So ignoring the political sniping, what would you do ?
Do you think that anyone who arrives on British shores by whatever means should be welcomed with open arms ?
Do you think that the rule of law should be upheld, and that those who break it should be punished ?
Do you think that illegal immigrants should be detained in a secure facility while their application for entry to the UK is processed ?
Do you have an opinion as to where that facility should be ? Does it make any difference whether it be in Kent, the Outer Hebrides, or Rwanda ?
Do you think that anyone who arrives in the UK illegally should just be given Carte Blanche to remain indefinitely ?
Surely these are the real questions that surround this issue.
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While that is a factor, I think it is much deeper, older and more malevolent than that.
Well Robert, Iād look at from another angle. Why is the UK the only country whinging about refugees?
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Iām sorry if the questions I posed are bit too near the knuckle, but how about giving a direct answer to them as opposed to endeavouring to deflect the conversation elsewhere.
Anyway, who says that the UK is the only country whinging about refugees ? I think you will find that there is a similar debate ongoing elsewhere about people illegally crossing the Rio Grande for example.
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Not just the UK John.
To name a couple Israel and Denmarkā¦
Well, apartheid Israel doesnāt really count IMO and Iām not too au fait with the Danish view. The only major country that seems to be making such a big issue is the UK. Sure, rightwing and populist politicians all over Europe play the anti immigrant card (though even OrbĆ”n is now happy to accept Ukrainians (whites), that says a lot) but in the UK it is a Government obsession to keep refugees oit while there are far more important issues to address. Not to mention that the Home Secretary herself is a second generation refugee, I wonder how well her folks would have done in Kigali instead of Hampshire?
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Alright, here we goā¦ 
To return to the subject of illegal immigration, isnāt the real question, āShould people be allowed to benefit from committing an illegal actā?
Crossing the English Channel in a small boat is not only dangerous but is also for the most part illegal. So what is to be done with these people to ensure that they do not benefit from their illegal act ? Sending them to some other country whilst their application for admission to the UK is processed is one option, but then so is sentencing them to 5 or 10 years imprisonment for committing their crime.
Thatās not the plan Robert. They will be shipped to Rwanda for processing in the Rwandan refugee system. If they are approved that get to stay in Rwanda, not in the UK.
So ignoring the political sniping, what would you do ?
Itās not my job to fix this issue, thatās what Shitty is paid to do.
Do you think that anyone who arrives on British shores by whatever means should be welcomed with open arms ?
I think that anyone that arrives in the UK should be treated with respect and not just dumped in Rwanda at 30k a pop.
Do you think that the rule of law should be upheld, and that those who break it should be punished ?
Well, I think you should ask the Bollinger swigging Boris Johnson and his No. Ten pals about that, not some cold and wet person fleeing persecution.
Do you think that illegal immigrants should be detained in a secure facility while their application for entry to the UK is processed ?
No.
Do you have an opinion as to where that facility should be ? Does it make any difference whether it be in Kent, the Outer Hebrides, or Rwanda
Once again, this is not the Australian model, this is a new (yet again) World leading (according to Shitty) model. Refugees are shipped out never to return.
Do you think that anyone who arrives in the UK illegally should just be given Carte Blanche to remain indefinitely ?
Nobody has suggested that, so why have you?
Surely these are the real questions that surround this issue.
Well, thatās my tuppence worth
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Is this the case?
I thought anyone could seek asylum on arrival no matter how they arrived.
There is no such thing as an illegal asylum seeker.
I canāt help thinking that with the hundreds of thousands of vacancies in UK that welcoming new people could be of benefit.
(I am aware however that for some ātheyā are the wrong type of people.)
The Rwanda distraction is truly bizarre, it is more densely populated than UK and has an appalling record as highlighted by UK govt less than a year ago.
In reality, as with most things these clowns announce, is unlikely to amount to anything significant other than direct money to their mates again.
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Iāve noticed that too. Karen. Use of rude words, āI donāt give a monkeys what you thinkā replies etc all creeping in. I use my real name rather than an avatar because I am prepared to stand by my views should someone ever meet me rather than hide.
Sometimes my views are different & can prompt lively discussion but the threads in the past were not as openly hostile as some are now.
It is indeed a changing world.
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I think the real problem now is lack of housing. One of my children is homeless at the moment and there is nothing either private or social available. And presumably any massive building schemes would lead to a collapse in house prices.
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I agree with the comments about behaviour/ deterioration etc.
Iād suggest that everyone who shares this concern tags me whenever they see a post that is unpleasant and I will act on it.
I think that a ārebootā will help enormously.
(And use the @cat feature rather than a flag please as itās faster for me to get to).
Happy Easter everyone!
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And this would be a bad thing?
Housing in the UK is unaffordable; the rot set in when council houses were sold off under Thatcher and local authorities prevented from borrowing money to build replacements.
Private developers have never filled in the gap as was claimed they would, at least in part because it was financially in their interests to restrict supply so that prices of new builds would rise - sometimes even sitting on land with planning permission but not developing the site.
The gains are largely illusory anyway, itās all very well thinking āitās great my house is worth a fortuneā when any property you might buy will be similarly inflated.
The only people apart from property developers to benefit are either the elderly, downsizing for retirement and landlords as, although the properties are more expensive, rents have gone up enough to compensae, and then some. It used to be the case that a landlord probably owned a property outright and rent was less than a mortgage would have been, low council rents helped keep the whole sector down a bit. Now people have been encouraged into buy-to-let by low interest rates which means the landlord has a mortgage as well, and needs the rent to be higher to generate profit. The tennants are trapped paying more than they would if they could buy the property but are hampered in efforts to save for a depost by the artificially high rents.
The Tories look after their own, not the man in the street.
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Hello John
When I read through threads over the last week trying to catch up on things Iāve missed, Iāve seen your input quite a few times. Clearly youāve had a very interesting life and visited many places, you are what some might consider well traveled. Which is something I think is as good, if not better an education than traditional schooling might offer.
Travel broadens the mind, allows people the chance to see things from a different perspective etc.
So it troubles me why you would write āWhy is the UK the only country whinging about refugees?ā?
Do you really believe what you typed? That the UK is the only country whinging about refugees?
I ask you this in all sincerity because the topic of refugees is a huge hot political issue in Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Italy, Greece to name a few, and thatās not looking at North and South America (letās build a wallā¦), and donāt let us forget about Australia ākids overboard get John Howard reelected etcā.
So I find your comment very strange from a person I perceived to be well traveled and well read.
If you had the time, would you be able to expand on why you feel that way, Iād be very interested to know.
Thanks
Henri
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so, devoid of any ability to find workable solutions herself, Shitty has now been taking lessons from Wooster Mugg and is asking her critics to come up with suggestions to resolve the immigration/asylum crisisā¦
isnāt that her job?
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My thoughts.
- There needs to be suitable twin track policies and administrative procedures in place to be able to assess people on (a) the benefits that they can bring to the UK (points system) and / or (b) the danger that they might be fleeing (war, religious, sexual persecution etc).
I suggest that if someone qualifies under either track then they should be granted entry to the UK.
I would expect and hope that any points based system is somewhat dynamic and reflects the current labour shortages (e.g. nurses, doctors, dentists, truck drivers, fruit/veg pickers etc).
-
Refugee / potential immigrant processing should be carried out in either the country that the candidate resides in OR any other UK embassy.
-
In order to eliminate some of the horrendous backlog refugee processing in mainland UK, an amnesty be given to all undocumented immigrants that have survived in the UK for say 5 years.
The Home Office reformed and so that such backlogs do not reoccur.
- A humane and practical āreturnsā policy established, which enables unsuccessful candidates to return to their country of origin.
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