To Hell or Rwanda

Sounds like a rather nasty kidney comorbidity.

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Sound like dodgy estate agents.

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Or lawyers, like Hook, Line and Sinker or Sue Grabbitt and Runne.

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Yes @Robert_Hodge
The sort of stuff that pays lawyers their exorbitant fees and keeps them in a certain lifestyle :wink:

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Local glazier Breakit and Leggitt. Really.

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The Guardian Members\ 600x60
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Dear John,

Earlier this month, I was in Poland for a few days to see what happens when two million refugees suddenly appear in a country. Remarkable scenes. The entire nation seems to have mobilised. There were free handouts everywhere - burgers, sim cards, clothing, nappies, train tickets, even dog food. Poland ranks as the world’s 46th richest country, but I couldn’t help wondering if far wealthier nations like the UK, US, Australia and France would have coped as well. What do you think?

I was also reminded of the sensitivities of reporting on human tragedy fairly and compassionately. I probably spoke to 40 or 50 refugees over several days, wheeling out my rusty Russian as a somewhat unfortunate lingua franca. In every conversation, you have to remain aware that this is a life, not just a walking quotebox, in front of you. Several people burst into tears as I spoke to them - and I don’t mind admitting that I teared up too. Particularly when a young mother of a four-month old asked me in all sincerity where the buses back to Ukraine were. She just couldn’t cope without her husband, who had stayed behind in the city of Krivih Rih to fight.

The things that pass through your mind at moments like this: everything is truly precarious; we are all two or three strokes of ill fortune away from abjection; sometimes an interview can feel like exploitation; you urgently want to help, but writing an article seems an inadequate way of doing so; humans are resilient and inspiring; warmongers would monger a bit less often if they had to conduct interviews like this…

But clearly reporting from refugee centres in Poland is nothing compared to the work that my colleagues are doing in Ukraine itself. They are showing admirable courage and professionalism to bring us the story, even as they witness the most brutal, cynical, senseless murder. Tellingly, an OSCE report last week that detailed crimes against humanity in Ukraine referred to Guardian reports no fewer than nine times in its footnotes.

That serves as a reminder: that journalism is at its best when it gets out of the office and bears witness. It is often frightening, frustrating, difficult, intimidating, elaborate, confusing, convoluted, stressful and upsetting; but also absorbing, fascinating, a huge privilege and utterly vital.

Until next week

Mark Rice-Oxley

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I know what I think, I think Patel needs her arse kicked (in a non violent way, of course).

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Having seen the response around here, I’d expect the local communities to welcome Ukrainians with open arms too - the response to the crisis among the general population has been widespread and generous, really wanting to help. Driving through our village, there are Ukranian flags flying and one family has even painted their fence in Ukrainian colours.

I don’t think it’s because they ‘look like us’ so much as it being a European country that can be identified with personally and directly, and especially a historical protagonist being ‘the bad guy’ instead of a slightly abstract place on another continent.

[[quote=“Ancient_Mariner, post:128, topic:39037, full:true”]
I don’t think it’s because they ‘look like us’ so much as it being a European country that can be identified with personally and directly, and especially a historical protagonist being ‘the bad guy’ instead of a slightly abstract place on another continent.
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The latter explains the former. I do think it’s got a lot to do with being pink.

I understand why you would see things that way, but I think it’s much more about culture and location than skin colour. If this was Turkey I think there would be less of a response, even though Turks look european.

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Hush, some of us like our lifestyle :rofl:

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You couldnt miss it. And I would kick it in a violent way.

At least you’ve made it clear what you think @John_Scully

“I have to give Shitty Patel some credit. Being shipped to Rwanda could well be a disincentive to cross the Channel, Haiti might have been an even better option.”

Followed by

“I know what I think, I think Patel needs her arse kicked (in a non violent way, of course).”

:rofl:

Henri

As John Crace writes "Theresa May telling Priti Patel that her Rwanda immigration environment was too hostile even for her”…

Hello @Mat_Davies

I think that you have some excellent and challenging thoughts there.

Many, many times people around the world try to change their circumstances/life, by changing their location? “If we emigrate to Australia wouldn’t life be grand, etc” Quickly followed by, (insert whatever you like) it’s too hot here, it’s too expensive here, there’s no decent blah here, and now the honeymoon period is over let’s get back to our rut of problems between us that we had before and never dealt with, just brushed under the carpet…

Given the choice where would I move to? I have lived all over the world, not visited, lived years in places all over, I could have chosen almost anywhere to end my days (yes, privileged, worked for, but still a privilege) and I choose to live in very rural France. I have never regretted one single minute of it.

Why France, why not Miami, or Dubai or Sydney or Lusaka, or wherever?

Well many reasons, but one which Mat touched on was climate. I used to work in 50 plus degrees and never thought anything of it, but was shocked to find weeks of 38-40 plus degrees in the Alps in summer. Also the south of France, years ago walking around the peninsula of Saint-Jean-Cap-Ferrat used to be glorious - but try it in summer now, the heat is immensely more intense now, you cannot carry enough water to safely walk that trail on your own with the changes each new summer brings.

So for me, picking somewhere that “currently” doesn’t require aircon is perfect.

But something else, sticking with Mat’s comments, how long before people that might be today complaining about migrants, end up becoming migrants themselves due to climate change and their location becoming for all practical purposes unlivable?

Unlivable not just from extreme heat, but what about flooding? We hear now from politicians “that was a 100 year storm, or 100 year flood” and even “it’s a 1000 year flood”.

Well there are places in Oz now that have recently gone through their third 100 year flood in ten years. I do understand the term 100 year flood and it’s not literal, but it’s still a huge flood event.

There are multi million dollar homes being hit on a regular basis now, this is not just planning permission gone mad, they were not simply built on flood plains. There are suburbs being hit that have NEVER been hit before.

So mat’s got a decent question there, thought provoking, what happens when the NIMBY migrant refuser’s locations become so affected by climate change - they end up as migrants?

I’m picturing a jobsworth at the new migrant processing center in Lyon in shiny shoes, tightly pulled down hat with a shiny peak saying “sorry we’ve accessed your claims, but famine and natural disasters don’t qualify for settled status”. Of course I’m joking to show the hypocrisy and stupidity that labels are when talking about people that need help.

Mat, great stuff, thanks

Where would you live, life changing lotto win comes in Friday night, you win 100 plus Mill Euros, where you moving to?

Henri

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Hellholes all :wink:

What kind of world, would my world be, if everyone in it were just like me?

I’ve never been to Lusaka, we turned right at Kariba. We should have kept going and spent a couple of nights there. Might go back one day.

Interesting article linked from the one you posted Graham. Ironically, Australia’s reluctance to accept the New Zealand offer because refugees could end up in Oz via a “backdoor” in nothing compared to the ability of refugees in Ireland to take a "stroll “ up north and across to Scotland and beyond. :joy: