Have you googled Rathkeale James? There are some very interesting articles in the local and Irish press. Take a look at the cars these people drive and the criminal cases where members of these families have been convicted. Ignoring planning laws is just the tip of the iceberg. The only members of this community who can be forgiven for breaking gthe law are the children. All the adults know that they are breaking the law. QED.
“Taxes were paid by some, not all” - a bit like the British community in France!
Most of us are not-mean-minded and find your personal experiences of these Irish, so-called travellers illuminating.
I am wondering where they find the money to carry on with their battle against Basildon Council.
Quotations like this which you mean to apply to everyone do not! My natural mother took me to the High Court to stop me using her maiden name to try and find my father, as she refused to tell me his name, which did not appear on my birth certificate. He was never told that I existed. I respected her wish that she did not want to see me, and I didn't want to see her either. I wasn't even told that she had applied for an injunction against me, so I had no chance to put my case, although I was legally represented and that is the usual nicety. I subsequently found out that she had lied to the Court when another member of my family told me that she had admitted to having an affair with an Australian Air Force officer. I had respected her wishes, but when I developed breast cancer, it became important to contact my father as I have two daughters. Not all parents treat their children well and platitudes like the one you have quoted can cause pain to many people.
Somehow I find it slightly ironic that we, a bunch of foreigners over here, are spending so much energy getting worked up about 'foreigners' over there.
To bring it back to our own country of residence for a moment there has been a substantial reduction in the provision of services for travellers here in the Languedoc, a friend of mine who is responsible for working with Community of Communities in the PO estimates that around only 25% of the budget that is set down in law for provision for travellers in that Department is actually been spent.
For a Region that makes a lot of money out of Ferias, and promotes the bulls of the Camarges this is clearly a threat to the long term sustainability of a key aspect of our tourist trade.
Last year's attempt by the Government to look more like the FN than the FN by expelling the Rom also seems to have upped the anti.
The poly tunnels of the PO and the vineyards of Aude and the Herault don't pick themselves, without seasonal labour that, er , travels, the local economy would grind to a halt.
I am not mean-minded at all, and sorry that you feel ‘sick’ but I still stand by what I say, and I am offended by your comment.
Hi Jo, thats fine I dont mind people having opinions on Dale Farm, but to be honest you have had to live in the area to know what sort of people they actually are…Basildon Council has provided more legal pitches for gypsies than most councils and until 10 years ago there was never any real trouble or disharmony. The Irish Travellers that have taken over the illegal side have absolute contempt for everybody apart from themselves,they intimidate, steal and yes I can say that as I witnessed it myself, discard their rubbish in the country lanes, as well as building blocks of toilets and a warehouse for their illegal 3 piece suites from E.Europe without planning permission. I could go on and on about their activities but suffice to say they are not legal activities and it is about time it was stopped.
Actually Jeanette they have not been given the ‘right’ at all, it is just that every time the council had the wherewithall to proceed with the eviction the travellers would put in an appeal, they have been everywhere with appeals…and correct me if I am wrong but once an appeal has been made the council has to wait for the outcome. Obviously all these appeals, not sure exactly how many, have taken nearly 10 years, the council have been fighting for 10 years and each time the travellers say they have no where to go to and they need more time, it has been proven by land registry documents that many of them own houses in Rathkeale, also they have council houses in Wolverhampton ??why there I’m not sure…they have admitted on camera that their menfolk come to Euope and work but they claim benefits, I could go on and on but obviously you have your point of view, I just wanted to put the fact straight that they never had the’right’ to stay on the illegal side of Dale Farm.
If Britain had a clear well thought out and concise policy on halting sites and the more permanent ones as well, there would not be the problem and the need for councils to carry out costly evictions. It is not high on the agenda until they are forced to do something and it is only now Dale farm has brought the whole issue into the public domaine and to the attention of the world's media, they are starting to sit up and take notice as no council want's it to happen on their patch.
France does not seem to have this problem at all, we have several communites in my area, all on good sites, all behaving themselves, paying their dues and working for a living, not being treated as outcasts and this is surely the way forward in Britain.
lol re ; steve clinton!
Carol you mustn’t make claims that arn’t backed up…please let everyone know where you are getting the “9 times out of 10” conclusion from and the “frequently”…is this your own summary based on your own feelings or is this something that has actually been studied and published? if so, where and by whom?
re; Maria
I wasn't siding with anyone, as you could see by my comments on other parts of the discussion about my own experiences.I actually believe the Dale Farm eviction is quite legal and they have no case.
I was actually trying to imagine what the point of view of a homeless, uneducated mother of too many children who's been taught not to integrate into the community might be struggling with.
sorry Jennie, but that’s a very silly comment. If a traveller is causing a problem they are much more likely to move around more often and therefore much more likely to end up near anyone. People who buy houses arn’t by default able to see into the future, or know all the local bad characters that might turn up on their doorstep or, in fact, own the big house right next door…
My very good friend Chris Johnson, is a partner of the Law firm Community Law Partnership
Ruskin Chambers, 191 Corporation Street, BIRMINGHAM, B4 6RP
Tel: 0121 6858595 , Chris has written a book called "Gypsy and Traveller Law".
They have worked on behalf of thousands travellers, of all types, for about 30 years, if I'm not mistaken.
The whole Dale Farm situation is frought with both social, legal, cultural complications on both "sides" as it is in each individual case and each individual case should be investigated and taken up as with any other legal case.
I should also mention that this Dale End case was offered to CLP, but they declined to work on it.
This forum is a very good place to discuss the issue, because as immigrants, we are all engaged in our own unavoidable daily comparison between life in the UK and life in France..which can also result in stereotyping, predjudice and discrimination between our 2 cultures.
My view is that there are real issues which need to be addressed. Discrimination or criminality used against any community, from either side, will always make a difficult situation into a dangerous one and it's about time people discussed the details and stopped getting bogged down with sweeping generalisations. I want to tell my own stories and hear about others but I also want to hear real facts and figures on real scientifically presented arguments about the real effects of welcoming travellers into a community. I also want the good stories as well as the bad ones.
I also must say that in the near future 90% of all legal aid for ALL housing issues, including that for "ordinary householder", is about to be axed by the coalition.
its quite simple really …travellers travel and people who stay in the same place for ten years are called piss taking stay putters…
hmmm…'ignorant flummery’really? I give you two citizens in the UK…one claims to be a Gypsy…the other claims nothing other than having been born in the UK…both decide to build illegally…the Gypsy…as in several cases occuring in Kent…chooses to build an illegal shower block…illegally tap the water and electricity over a Bank Holiday weekend…this happens frequently…I have checked. The English man, builds an extension without permission to his legal abode, to which he has full documentation of ownership…including the quarter acre his house is built upon…now…guess who is required to remove the illegal buildings? 9 times out of 10 the Gypsies will claim discrimination and win…sadly for our legal owner…the English man who has paid for the freehold of his property…he will not be so lucky…he will have his extension removed… now…explain this please…because I for one am not interested in discriminating against anyone…but this seems to me the actions of a scared and idiotic state who doesnt realise that discrimination can be levelled at those who are born and bred in the country of origin.
In fairness…if you have a gypsy site near you…it will devalue your property…my sister in law has a farmhouse with a couple of acres in kent…the acre next to her, with a stable only…was sold by her neighbour because despite applying for planning permission for a bungalow for her and her disabled husband to live in…it was refused…thus they sold…to a gypsy…who applied for a fixed shower block, one fixed ‘mobile home’ and the permission for one travelling mobile home…they were refused…but low and behold…despite the tories and their localisation…ie. local councils deciding local decisions…they came in and turned it around…my sister in law now has a dozen vans at any one time next door…dogs a plenty barking all night, searchlights on all night and her million and a half pound farmhouse…owned for 35 years and built up from a wreck is now worth around 400k…now why would anyone mind that? I rest my case…
Probably because the locals, or at least some of them, treat the travellers as scum and worry about the value of their properties thinking no one will want to buy if we need to sell. I have had dealings with many tavellers as we are horse breeders, never ever had any problems with them, all have been perfectly honest and kept to the deals. In fact, we’ve learnt a lot from them over the years.
I lived at Brentwood for twenty years and this is bot the only site in Essex. The local children and families are provided with a DVD on how to integrate with the “travellers” - the “travellers” refuse absolutely to attempt to integrate with the locals!!
The whole “human rights” trumpeting is a red herring. It comes down to rules of law which exist to monitor and control who builds what and where. When living in the U.K. I was subject to it as are all who live there are. If these “travelers” don’t like the law they have the choice to abide by it like most of us do or challenge it and suffer the consequences, as we would do as well you can be very sure of. If they don’t like the law they can try to change it through accepted democratic channels which are open to all of us or they can choose to go and live somewhere else. They can’t have it both ways.
All too often we see minority groups who in this case contribute very little to our society, ready to shout out about their “human rights” but never mention or acknowledge the responsibilities that go hand in hand with rights that have been fought for by so many in the past.
Personally I think that those living on the site without planning permission should be evicted without further delays and waste of public money. If the court allows them stay I would suggest that the local authority disband their planning department and let everyone do exactly what they want where they want. I’ve also sent a message to Vanessa Redgrave asking her is she knows any land neighboring her house so they can move there but haven’t yet had a reply.