Some good news (potentially) for you John as Germany has banned Oxford vacc for over 65s - maybe France will follow suit…
And is everyone counting deaths using the same criteria ?
I find that kind of statistical comparison rather odious because we’re not simply discussing two abstract sets of numbers; in the UK over a 100K real people have died and one may assume there are four times as many real people grieving.
My mother was one of the former group and I’m one of the latter.
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Very sorry to hear that Mark.
Numbers are indeed odious.
I hasn’t been approved in the UK yet either Anne. Is is being deployed under emergency provisions that are also available to all EU countries (and were also available to the UK even before Brexit). The 27 EU countries have chosen not to deploy before approval but Johnson has taken a punt, and I hope it works out, but it is a punt. As is not following the manufactures’ dosing schedule.
No Anne, it’s not. You’re mixing up Johnson’s strategy with the EU’s. Johnson is using the vaccine success (and I hope it is a success) to cover up his abysmal failures that have resulted in over 100,000 deaths. He previously used the new UK variant as a smokescreen for the current horrible UK spike which was actually predominantly a result of his decisions (or lack of them).
If you look at the demographics of the UK rollout and the increasing doubt on over 65s effectiveness, much of the (laudable) UK effort could be in vain, or at least of only short term benefit.
As I’m 67 Anne, the fact that AZ vaccine may be less effective is hardly good news, though not unexpected given the early shambles of their announcement.
That Anne, of you’ll forgive me for saying so, is directly out of the Toy excuse book. I last heard it from Minister Coffey just before she blamed the excess UK deaths on people being too old and too fat.
IMHO AZ, despite I’m sure having many very gifted and dedicated scientists, is a run very badly. I’ve already had this debate on another thread. I’m sorry to say I think I have been proved right.
Apart from that I agree with everything you say 
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Yes, that was partly my point - the number of deaths is not actually comparable between different countries. It’s a long-standing problem in medical stats.
Eg the US has good cancer survival stats, frequently better than the UK - so they must, with all their advanced medicine, be better at treating it than us?
Nope, first they record the cancer starting when the patient first had symptoms, we tend to do it from when they get a diagnosis (either histology or imaging) which is later and 2nd they record the death when the stats are collated, which can be some weeks or months after the patient died.
The result is that two patients can have exactly the same disease course but apparently survive longer in the 'States.
I’m sure your’e right in your own mind.
As to people being older and fatter that does actually seem quite valid. (diabetes being a major underlying cause of death). Clearly politicians would not normally dare to say this although some others have intimated it.
I’m sure there are no such people in France, of course 
| John Scully Age 67 ¾ . John_Scully Patron
28 January |
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Annej2003:
It hasn’t even been approved yet for use in the EU.
How can they certain it will be?
I hasn’t been approved in the UK yet either Anne. Is is being deployed under emergency provisions that are also available to all EU countries (and were also available to the UK even before Brexit). The 27 EU countries have chosen not to deploy before approval but Johnson has taken a punt, and I hope it works out, but it is a punt. As is not following the manufactures’ dosing schedule.
Isn’t it an attempt to divert attention from the slow progress of the vaccine in the EU?
No Anne, it’s not. You’re mixing up Johnson’s strategy with the EU’s. Johnson is using the vaccine success (and I hope it is a success) to cover up his abysmal failures that have resulted in over 1000,000 deaths. He previously used the new UK variant as a smokescreen for the current horrible UK spike which was actually predominantly a result of his decisions (or lack of them).
What do you mean? UK’s efforts open to question?
If you look at the demographics of the UK rollout and the increasing doubt on over 65s effectiveness, much of the (laudable) UK effort could be in vain, or at least of only short term benefit.
Some good news (potentially) for you John
As I’m 67 Anne, the fact that AZ vaccine may be less effective is hardly good news, though not unexpected given the early shambles of their announcement.
And is everyone counting deaths using the same criteria ?
That Anne, of you’ll forgive me for saying so, is directly out of the Toy excuse book. I last heard it from Minister Coffey just before she blamed the excess UK deaths on people being too old and too fat.
‘Too old and too fat’ Piers Morgan skewers Therese Coffey on why UK has…
PIERS MORGAN ripped into Thérèse Coffey during a heated Good Morning Britain interview this morning, after he accused her of blaming the public for the reason the UK has one of the highest numbers of Covid deaths.
IMHO AZ, despite I’m sure having many very gifted and dedicated scientists, is a run very badly. I’ve already had this debate on another thread. I’m sorry to say I think I have been proved right.
Apart from that I agree with everything you say 
Food for thought, a comment in the Guardian from someone in Arizona.
“I am concerned, however, as to whether the AZ vaccine will be little more than sugar water for my parents and their pensioner peers. I remember reading the AZ trial reports late last year and being rather surprised at how data on efficacy for the over 65s was extremely limited. The EU has reached the same conclusion today. Australia are also sniffy and the US’ FDA has yet to make a ruling. Could it be that using AZ for the UK’s Groups 1 through 4 was all for nought? Are the UK’s 65s+ going to need another jab - say, those from Pfizer or Moderna - because AZ’s vaccine is ineffective for this age group? I hope I’m wrong but I can’t shake this nagging doubt that another a Groups 1-4 re-vaccination effort is on the cards. We shall see.”
I’ve heard talk of a ‘mix and match’ approach. Maybe this is why.
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So it is the population’s fault that this virus is killing them? Not perhaps the fact that their government has failed to protect them? What is an 85 year old to do then? And many diabetics are not fat!
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Lots, they come over from the UK to live here and use our health service 
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Of course you are right Anne, obesity and age are significant factors. But blaming the victim isn’t a good look for a politician, especially as from photos Minister Coffey would seem to have her own weight challenges.
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She’s a well-connected rich* bucket of lard and consequently likely to have a better outcome if ill, whatever the illness may be, than a woman of the same age and corpulence living on the breadline.
*I was going to say old but I checked her age, which is quite a lot less than I expected from the look of her. But still, I bet she is healthier than a 49 year-old fatso who’s been skint for ages.
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Seems a very sensible comment to me Fleur.
I think the British Government and their childish yet offensive “we’re the best, na, na na na” approach on virtually everything has blighted the AZ vaccine from the start.
Everything Johnson and his cronies utter is World beating or best in the World, etc. etc. Here’s the truth behind Johnson and Cummings operation Moonshot 
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I couldn’t out better myself Véro. She is of the same calibre as the rest of Johnson’s third rate team.
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Latest news I’ve seen on AZ.
EU inspectors checking out the AZ Belgian plant.
According to German press, AZ has agreed to publish the contract (which EU says specifies access to product from all production plants, including the two UK ones).
AZ to boost EU supply from the 31m offered on Friday (I wonder where that’s coming from?).
Plus…
Dumping a bombshell on the EU doorstep last Friday wasn’t smart. Then the AZ CEO’s comment that the EU was being “emotional” didn’t help.
Surely that first step should have been to get the UK, the EU and AZ around the table behind closed doors to try work out the most equitable, though painful, solution for all parties. This should only have all blown up and come in the public domain if those discussions had failed.
I wonder if the AZ CEO attempted that but one of the parties wouldn’t agree?
Ohh, breaking news. Nicola Sturgeon has threatened to make the AZ contract public 
Update: It was the AZ supply figures not contract.
It’s like a bunch of adolescent school kids bickering amongst themselves about how to cover up a series of feck ups they have made 
Or maybe that China released it around the world …
No way! I put her at 60!
I don’t think there’s any denying that Anne, no matter what the Chinese Regime says. But I’ve seen interviews with Wuhan residents who think it was America that sent them the virus.
I’m so tired of propaganda, no matter where it’s comes from and the gullibility of those that swallow it. Social Media has IMO facilitated a deluge of misinformation on the masses.
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