Where to from France

Fascism and Nazism are not exactly the same. Far right parties, whatever you call them, like Le Pen’s and this new one in Italy, may not welcome foreign refugees or even immigrants, like us, but that is a far cry from what the Nazis did in Germany and elsewhere.

Mussolini was a Nationalist and an opportunist. He wavered for a long time before throwing his lot in with Hitler and might even have gone the other way towards the Allies at one point. He even had Jews in his party and there is strong evidence that he resisted as far as he was able in making or enforcing laws against them and in bowing to German demands to expel them, or worse.

@Ancient_Mariner is right as far as I am concerned, my first reaction to a Le Pen government would not be to be making plans for an exit, anymore than I would now in England.

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You don’t have my history. And history and emotion are powerful driving forces.

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@JaneJones
you’ve hit the nail squarely on the head.

On the face of it… such and such might make complete sense to one person… and completely the opposite to another… with variations in between.

“We are all the sum of our parts” … as someone said…
I’m the sum of mine, which won’t be anything like yours… or anyone else’s come to that.

Isn’t it little things over a long period of time that lead to final solutions, tiny things like cutting tax to your mates, forbidding novels ,musique , the drip feeding over periods ends badly for minorities usually.

There are many historical examples of that. Which doesn’t mean that is what will happen in the future.

Look at pictures of people pouring out of Ukraine with their possessions in a wheelbarrow. Yes there were lots of signs, but no one expected it to happen when it did.

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It’s how it happends though.

I took Danish lessons at school. Wonderful - it was like chewing a gobstopper for half an hour, you never had to open your mouth while speaking it. I can still read the headlines but it would take a lot to get me back to using the language properly.

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Indeed- the case of Dollfuss is a clear example - assassinated by the Nazis precisely because, as an admirer of Mussolini, he was the wrong kind of fascist !

But the key question is not about the individuals - but why throughout Europe in the 20s and 30s - actually in almost every country - many turned to fascism of various complexions. And it’s notable that in very few places were fascist parties actually elected - they probably never achieved majority support anywhere. Generally, fascists came to power either like Mussolini and Hitler - and indeed Dollfuss - because ‘the establishment’ in various guises (army, church, royalty, centre-right politicians, etc) in the various countries feared imminent revolution or social breakdown, and looked for a ‘strong man’ - or the elected government was actually too left-wing, and the same ‘establishment’ forces fell in behind a fascist rebellion (Spain) or invasion (France).

The key questions we need to ask ourselves now are not therefore about LePen or Truss or Meloni as individuals, but about the circumstances in Europe then, and what similarities there might now be.

Historically literate and very relevant article here by the author of the forthcoming book The Capital Order: How Economists Invented Austerity and Paved the Way to Fascism

There’s a little restaurant in the old part of Antibes (more a take away place with a couple of tables) that does Poutine as a speciality (it’s called Kébec or something like that!). I tried Poutine once on my own and then again a few weeks later with my (adult) son. I could hardly move afterwards!!! Might have been the effect of the two Quebec beers (8 or 9% alc) but it was a right Carbohydrate coma!!! Both times it was summer though, and pretty hot. Suspect it would be nicer on a cold winter day, especially if one had to go outside and check 50 beaver traps!!

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