Why we must support Brexit


(Mark Rimmer) #1

I used to think that Brexit was a bad idea. Apart from feeling that there is strength in numbers I also felt that the EU did much more good than harm. The UK had an imput into the happenings in Europe & could benefit from being a “club” member.
Trouble is, the more I see & hear about the UK & England in particular the more I could see that the country of my birth was changing but not in a good way. An englishman used to be stereotyped as an honest, straight talking if slightly unimaginative person - benign. This is not the englishman of today & will certainly not be the englishman of the future.
What has made me alter my stance?
Firstly, so called “political correctness”. This phrase is used to stop people speaking about things which some others simply do not want to face & for the few to drastically affect the lives of the many.
I do not want to be associated with a society so stupid.
I’m sure that some of the stupidity is not uniquely English but to see so much on one island is, frankly, mad.
The UK allows publicly owned hospitals to charge its users to park there, some to the tune of £3 per hour! If the fee was there to stop unauthorised parking & users could have tickets validated rather than paying it would make sense. The current system penalises the sick.
The NHS spends millions providing free IVF treatment & other non life threatening treatment. Its remit should be limited to treating the sick, injured & wounded only, not pandering to the whims of the healthy.
Gender neutral schools - this is bonkers! I would imagine that the number of sexually confused children in England is very small indeed but now whole school populations are being forced to become gender neutral in order that, in the event that one of their number might be a little uncomfortable, they won’t feel out of place! On this rather daft theory then perhaps schoolchildren should be fed on chocolate & burgers in order to make the few fat kids feel less marginalised.
Not suggesting that some children fail at some things. If you tell every loser that they have done well & give them a prize for finishing last you will produce a generation of unincentivised individuals who will think that they will be rewarded even if their work is rubbish. One day you might drive a car built by these guys who will get paid even though they do not know how to fit the brakes.
Politicians. Whatever happened to politeness? The House of Commons is a zoo with nearly all the parties’ members exhibiting nothing but the playground manners of a badly run junior school. Who thinks they are capable of running the country?
Brexit voters. “We don’t need Europe, Europe needs us!” What for, exactly? Apart from Marmite & baked beans I can’t think of anything I need from the UK. On the other hand where do most of the UK supermarkets get their fresh produce from? That would be Europe then, electricity - some from Europe, nurses, farm workers & waitresses - EU, cars, steel, electronics - Europe & beyond. The list goes on. In fact, the UK has very little that the rest of Europe or the rest of the world really needs. Once the borders are reinstated & everything imported to the UK becomes subject to import duty things will get very expensive, especially now that the pound is worth so little!
I think that all the above has produced a nation of woolly headed individuals & its getting worse. Only this morning the banner which runs along the screen on Sky News contained the phrase “will not intrude the view of the setting sun”. They have obviously employed one of the products of the school system who was not permitted to be told that they had failed their english ‘O’ level.Now that person can go on to bastardise the english language to millions of viewers.
The law system is treating the murderer of Lee Rigby seriously because he is seeking damages for injuries received in prison. I assume that the tax payer will pay for his solicitor and pay for the defence of the officers concerned. The taxpayer will be out of pocket & the family of Lee Rigby will be insulted. Bring back the death penalty, it would be cheaper!
Compensation payments for trajedies get larger depending on how much publicity those get, made by both charities & government bodies, even when the recipients may have contributed to their own misfortune or even if an illegal activity was involved. Foreign aid worth over £370 million is given to Pakistan despite that country’s ability to spend huge amounts on nuclear weapons & its space programme. What is the UK government thinking?
Now the government, in its desire to leave the EU (& having used forced EU legislation as one of the reasons for doing so) has passed a vote enshrining all these laws into UK ones! As Homer would say "Doh!"
So I think that the EU is better off without that ball & chain known as the UK. Let’s treat it as an old fashioned leper colony or a plague ship. We do not want our adopted home to become infected with such stupidity, do we. The rest of Europe will be well rid!


(David Naylor) #2

I take it you were another one of the products of the school system who was not permitted to be told that they had failed their english ‘O’ level? Now you’ve gone on to bastardise the English language to the dozens of readers of the Survive France forum. I can quite see why the rest of Europe wants rid of the U.K.


(stella wood) #3

Interesting… Mark… and probably/possibly many folk will be agreeing with at least part of what you have said. (whether or not they voted to Leave)

I worked briefly in a Comprehensive where I was told… we don’t correct spelling mistakes as it would/might demoralise the children… oh, and we no longer have Sports Day as it is unfair to the children who don’t come First…:crazy_face:

As you might imagine… my time there was brief… and I went back to the “sane” world of Industry & Commerce…:relaxed:

With regard to spelling mistakes for us immigrants… I find it more and more difficult to spell correctly in English nowadays. (Miss Roberts would have a fit as I was one of her star pupils.)


(Timothy Cole) #4

I assume that Mark doesn’t rely on the UK to pay for his healthcare and would be happy if all reciprocal arrangements were done away with so that he can be truly ‘European’ leaving the UK to rot?


(stella wood) #5

@tim17

I don’t think we should assume anything… just read what he has said and try to understand the very real frustrations that many folk feel…

and… another thing…I surely cannot be the only one to be infuriated with the Political Correctness that goes on now … such stuff really infuriates me … and I am usually such a calm person :innocent:


(Mark Rimmer) #6

Ha ha! Well spotted, I really should not compose stuff so late in the day when I should really be asleep! I actually passed my english language O level with quite a high grade, one of only a few passes. Many others came back with a large “fail” written against them. At the end of the day I am not being employed to use my skill or lack of it to write professionally.


(Timothy Cole) #7

The UK’s s**t but please keep paying for my healthcare, typical expat rant.


(stella wood) #8

actually, I don’t regard Mark’s Post as a “rant”… I thought it was well-thought-out… and clearly stated.

Whether or not one agrees … is up to the Reader.


(Timothy Cole) #9

But it’s hardly a balanced view of the UK. I could list a million things that are wrong with France which would give the impression the place is ‘going to the dogs’.


(stella wood) #10

Each to his own… Mark has listed his concerns… others will agree or disagree with all or part.

He is not playing-off one country against another.

There are wonderful things in France (in my opinion)… but there are many English who would not agree…and that is why they either do not live here… or are in throes of going back.

(one person recently bewailed the lack of decent restaurants in France…:nerd_face:…but it is a question of individual tastes/likes/dislikes)


(Mark Rimmer) #11

Your assumption is correct! With regard to the current reciprocal arrangement, will this continue after brexit? The UK voted to leave the EU, the EU did not vote to expel the UK, so who is leaving who?


(Mark Rimmer) #12

Tim, you have posted replies to other brexit topics on SF which seem to imply that you think that voting for brexit was a stupid decision, in which case we agree. Now, however, brexit is going ahead anyway & we cannot stop it. The majority voted for it so in my view the majority are stupid. Statistically one in every two brits must therefore be stupid (a generalisation, I know, as many were probably misinformed & confused). My post may seem extreme but it makes it easier for me to accept my belief that the UK has made a huge mistake. In the years to follow when the cost of living there has risen, unemployment likewise, the pound is worth 72 centimes or less & Sharia law is in force I can stand here in Europe with freedom, security & equality of opportunity.
France is no Utopia either & many things are less than perfect but overall the important values still stand.


(David Martin) #13

The common option seems to be that the Referendum took place, the leave campaign were victorious by the smallest of margins so therefore it was undemocratic to do anything other than follow the will of the people. Few have questioned this basic ‘fact’. I don’t believe that it is simple as that. In Britain democracy works by a first past the post system but that does not give the Government voted in carte blanche to do what they want as they want. They are kept in check by Parliament, in particular by the main opposition party. Why is it, in terms of Brexit, the opposition is expected to shut up and stand in line? If it’s not undemocratic to question the decisions made by an elected Government why is it considered undemocratic to question the decision of a mis-informed majority in a non binding referendum?
I now think that the sooner Britain leaves the EU the better but that is because I’m looking to the future of the mainland Europe I’ve lived in for the last 31 years not the island nation I left in 1986. Let’s get rid of the unenthusiastic member and get on with life. That course will hurt me financially but there are more important things in life.


(Paul Flinders) #14

Mark’s post contains too many points to comment on each individually but it is certainly an interesting stance - we should leave the EU because we are too stupid to be members.

I’m almost inclined to agree given the complete has we made of the referendum itself and the process afterwards.


(Ronald Fox) #15

I was minded to join the Forum by what I consider if not a rant, then a succession of sweeping
generalisations. We had 10 lovely years in France but moved back to the UK for a variety of reasons, amongst which are the usual - grandchildren, family constraints etc. I don’t recognise the UK Mark Rimmer describes. Where is this “stereotypical” Englishman. No political correctness here, nor Englishwomen. What’s wrong with telling somebody who has lost that they have done well. Our son had great difficulty running at primary school, but he took part, never won, and we told him he had done well. As has been pointed out, you wouldn’t get many marks for the quality of your English. I do agree that charging for hospital parking is shameful though I understand it for those institutions that are in commuter zones.


(Mark Rimmer) #16

Ronald, You won’t get many marks for your ability to read english! You ask

(It’s a question & should have a question mark at the end.) My point exactly - he no longer exists. This is what “This is not the englishman of today” means.
No political correctness? Really?

Question mark!!!

Because it’s a lie! He or she may have tried their best, made a good effort or whatever but the idea is to succeed at what you choose to do. Set the bar too low & you will end up with a nation of underachievers. I was useless at most sports at school, I knew this as coming in last tends to be obvious & I knew that the point of running a race is to try & be first. Team sports are different. There is no harm in congratulating a team who has lost but played well. Being no good at running & more to the point not enjoying it does not mean that you could not be good at rugby or field events but being patronised rather than redirected does not help.
A bit harsh to judge my use of english on one late night spelling mistake but unlike you at least I finish a question with a question mark. Thank the lord you do not use an apostrophe + s to make a regular noun plural.


(Ronald Fox) #17

If the British are so enfeebled by political correctness, then why do we do so well at sport? English rugby team equalled the world record for going unbeaten; the women’s cricket team won the World Cup; we were third best nation in the Olympics? Underachievers? My point was that I doubt that the stereotypical Englishman ever existed.


(Paul Flinders) #18

If you tell people that “only winning is good enough” then they tend to get very demotivated when they don’t win, or start to cheat in order to do so. Are you really saying that an athlete (say) who has put in a personal best performance but not won does not deserve at least some praise, and why, exactly, should a team be any different to an individual?

You tend to get the best performance out of people when they are challenged and encouraged.

Most of your first post was very little to do with Brexit but very much to do with a particular, largely inaccurate, perception of modern life in the UK.


(Mark Rimmer) #19

Because you only get the opportunity if you are good which, if you come in last, you are not. I doubt that any of them would be in the team if they weren’t. Many might try but only the best are chosen. There are talent scouts but no loser scouts!

@ptf No argument from me on the way to get the best out of people I cannot see that rewarding failure encourages anyone to improve. One only has to look at the large bonuses given to CEOs of the UK banks which were then bailed out by the taxpayer


(Paul Flinders) #20

A personal best is not failure and the evidence is that rewarding effort rather than results per se is much better for improving people’s performance be it athletic, academic or work related.

CEO pay is a different kettle of anchovies altogether. For most small and medium companies I suspect that there is rather a good correlation between performance and reward but you are right - there does seem to be a group which operate in an environment where no matter how big the corporate co*k-up they seem to come out of it without personal cost. I would wholeheartedly agree that this is inappropriate but I suspect neither of us is in much of a position to influence things either way.