Why we must support Brexit


(Ray Rampton) #21

Well I agree with Mark and Paul but want to make the following clarification to my agreement.

If I run to the very best of my ability and as fast as I really can and complete the 100m in a personal best of 30 seconds then I don’t want to be told that I’m good because clearly I’m not. I wouldn’t want a false hope that is going to be smashed if I then join an athletics club and get humiliatingly beaten in every race.
At the same time, I’d be happy to hear a “well done! You tried really hard and your effort has achieved a personal best. Good effort. Do you think you have some room for further improvement to get to a more competitive level?”

I agree that praise can be encouraging but false praise is only going to lead to a future disappointment with possible complications of never valuing praise again.

Disclaimer - this is only my view and may not be the same as anybody elses.


(Ronald Fox) #22

I wonder if we are saying the same thing; I see nothing wrong in telling somebody who has tried hard that they did well.
You argument about the excellence of our sportsmen and women seems rather specious, it’s pretty obvious they are the
top of the tree, but they were produced in the UK. Are you pro-Brexit or anti, I can’t work out? Do I understand that
you want the UK to leave the EU because we are mediocre? Where do you live? I have enjoyed visiting many
European countries, and lived in France. To me they are just different, not better or worse. US social practices
arrive eventually in the UK, and then head over to Europe. Political correctness started there; some of it is a bit silly, but equally
some ensures that you give a bit of thought to your words. Have you visited a UK school recently? What is this gender neutral
stuff? Do you get your news from the Mail or Express?


(Maria London) #23

Dear Mark,

I spent one month in France this Summer and I really felt how underdeveloped we are at home. I’ve been in Paris, Pornic (near Nantes) and Arcachon (near Bordeaux). I drove my English car for 1844 miles without any problem and … yes, I totally agree: it is not us who don’t want Europe. It is Europe that doesn’t need the Uk. The UK has a Laisser Faire that causes tragedies like the Grenfell Tower. But as a society they don’t realise that. I do because I am one of those Immigrantes who came to the UK 17 years ago with lots of money to invest in this country, with my fantastic diplomas that allowed me to get straightaway into the work market… I could go on for ever. But for now I just want to say thank you Mark. I know that my opinion is not going to change this, once beautiful, country. I just need to stay here because my son is English hence he needs an English education. The day he is an adult, I just pack everything and I will go back to Europe :slight_smile: I can wait because Europe, the beautiful Europe that we have been building for even before the UK was part of it, is going to win. We don’t want anymore wars.


(Mark Rimmer) #24

It’s all in the use of words. If someone tries hard to do something but does not achieve the target or even come close, then they have not done well! I’m sure various football managers try hard but if the team does not win games the the manager is sacked, not rewarded or patted on the back.
Our sportsmen & women are obviously at the top of their game, picked because they are winners. Very few youngsters who are no good at a particular sport are chosen to represent the UK at that sport because they “tried hard”. They have to be winners too. Rewarding the medeocre just because you don’t want to hurt their feelings only sets them up for a hard reality check later in life. Many companies want to employ university graduates. To go to university one has to have reached a certain academic level. If you fail to reach that level then you do not get to go to university. You do not get the high paying jobs. Telling a kid of 10 with a pathetic 2 out of 10 maths test score that he had done well because you don’t want to upset him will not motivate him. Tell him the truth (nicely) & make him realise that he should study more & play with his mobile phone less.
I live in France, Ronald. Could you not tell? I referred to “our adopted home” & the site is called Survive France.
I think the Brexit referendum was a stupid thing to do, believing that if things needed to change then it is best to be on the committee, not heckle from the auditorium. The UK, having now handed in their resignation, is still trying to negotiate use of the club’s facilities without having to pay. For all its faults (& as yet I cannot elicit any major ones from pro brexiteers) I think the EU was a power for good.But within DAYS of deciding to leave, Michael Howard was threatening a war with Spain - this after years of peace in Europe!
Gender neutral stuff - https://www.facebook.com/bbcnews/posts/10154674830892217. You have heard of the BBC?


(Ronald Fox) #25

There was a rather serious tragedy in Toulouse a few years ago, but clearly nothing to do with a “laissez-faire” attitude.


(Neil Whitehead) #26

Good points well made Mark. Like others here, I agree with some and not with others. Europe, and the world needs the UK for it’s expertise across many areas of life - Airbus needs Rolls Royce for one and where would we be without Mr. Dyson? One of the many problems is that we have very poor politicians with outdated views as most of them have never run a small business with their own money and have grown up in the Westminster political bubble. About Brexit - we are under the mistake idea that Barnier is there to negotiate - no he ain’t, he’s there to make Britain pay up as otherwise there will be a yawning gap in their budget and Angela and Macron are not going cap in hand to their electorates for more cash. I find your comment "freedom, security & equality of opportunity" a bit hard to take though. Anyway, it’s good to talk.


(Peter Goble) #27

I agree with Neil Whitehead in his approval of Mark’s letting off a bit of steam about things happening in UK that frustrate and/or bewilder him. Like you, Neil, there are things about his clearly-stated opinion that I wouldn’t much agree with, or over which I would plead a rather more nuanced view, but one of the reasons I like SV is that it’s such a fertile field for news and views, so balanced - as to liberal and more conservative perspectives, and - saving anyone’s blushes - so reassuringly well-served by women of high intellectual and experiential stature to challenge that of the men who post, and who bring equivalent life and professional experience to discussions, as well as wit and pith.

The issue of ‘genderedness’ and sexual dysphoria is currently getting a lot of media attention, and raising quite a lot of sensitive hackles.

I can sympathise with some people who feel very strongly challenged that there could be ambiguity around what masculinity and femininity ‘mean’. Some people do really hate uncertainty about such matters, and feel frightened and morally queasy. They shouldn’t be labelled as cranks or bigots. Evidence suggests that people are capable of and willing to modify the most extreme positions, given the right conditions for considering alternatives. It’s in this area that we should exert our own efforts. I’m a founder member of the Middle Way Society and I would recommend to those that might be interested to look at the content of our website (http://www.middlewaysociety.org) or our FB and twitter patforms.

I must say I think it’s a bit petty to draw critical and public attention to people’s spelling or grammar, very much “not the done thing”. Posts can be funny, interesting and insightful without being grammatically perfect. Some that aim at literary propriety can be a total f@cking switch-off, as mine has no doubt proved without a doubt. :zipper_mouth_face::upside_down_face::stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:


(David Naylor) #28

Peter, Mark chose to ridicule those that “bastardise the English language” whilst at the same time going on to bastardise the English language. People make mistakes, it’s perhaps better not to comment on such things if you are prone to to the same failings.


(Mark Rimmer) #29

David, Sky News is broadcast around the world. It should be important for such a prestigious organisation to present a high standard & that means getting their news & facts right, including the news banner. I doubt that the person tasked with writing it is an unpaid teenager dragged off the street that morning. I suspect that the person responsible is a faily well paid individual with qualifications. The banner does not consist of hundreds of words but it IS going to be read by millions of people. My little “rants” are going to be read by far fewer people & unlike the Sky employee I do not get paid to write them, neither did I have to go through a job interview to be able to post them. So feel free to poke fun at my late night typo if you must but I stand by my criticism of the banner writer. A spelling mistake by an amateur does not, in my view, “bastardise” the english language. A glaring misuse of a verb by a professional does.
However, I will take your criticism on board & je vais me coucherce soir moins bête!


(Mark Rimmer) #30

Thank you Neil.I’m pleased that you have joined the discussion. Yes, it is good to talk. Agreeing with me is by no means a requirement!


(David Naylor) #31

Mark I think you underestimate the global reach of the Survive France forum :wink:


(Robert Hodge) #32

I find it interesting that Jean Claude Juncker doesn’t agree with you Mark.
In his recent State of the Union Address he said that the EU will always regret the UK leaving.
I wonder if that could have anything to do with the great big hole that the absence of the UK will leave in the EU budget ?


(Ronald Fox) #33

Well I’ve skimmed back through your comments and can’t find anything about “my adoptive country”; even if I could was I to assume that it is France. I did not think you had to live in France to post on Survive France. If you think the death penalty is a good idea, watch 10 Rillington Place to see an innocent man hanged.


(Mark Rimmer) #34

English is not really your strong point, is it? Check the last line of my OP - & as I said, it was “adopted home”, not “adoptive country”. I obviously no longer live in the UK & I choose to contribute to a site called Survive France which would be an odd choice if I lived in Austria! It is true, however, that one does not have to live in France to use SF.
Innocent people being hanged? Do you care? I’m sure that the judge was told that he did well & should continue.


(stella wood) #35

Hi Everyone

Please can we NOT get onto the Death Penalty soapbox…debating Brexit is surely emotive enough ? :blush:


(Mark Rimmer) #36

Don’t worry, Stella, I was just trying to point out to Ronald that attention to detail is important particularly if your job requires it. In some the consequences of getting it wrong can be terrible. Architects cannot design buildings which will collapse, for example. Telling them that it was a “good effort” would not comfort the victims!


(Glen Margaret Griffin) #37

Dyson is onnly out for himself .


(Mark Rimmer) #38

Interesting view, Glen.
What was Dyson doing in 1998 (apart from making vacuum cleaners whose handles broke off when they fell over)? This is an extract of his biography on upclosed.com.

"In 1998, Dyson was one of the chairmen and chief executives of the twenty FTSE 100 companies who signed a statement published in The Financial Times in 1998 calling on the government for early British membership of the Eurozone. He claimed that failure to join the euro would lead to the destruction of the British manufacturing base and said: “It does not mean that the jobs will go tomorrow but will drift abroad over a period and the longer-term future of Britain as a manufacturing nation will be blighted. Ministers had better understand that if we delay entry too long there may be nothing left to save.”

An editorial published by The Times responded: “Mr Dyson, a manufacturing version of Sir Richard Branson, likes complaining. Yesterday he was complaining that Britain’s failure to join the Euro and the resultant strong Pound will force him to move abroad. Last week he blamed the price of land and planning delays in Wiltshire, but never mind. So where will he go? To Portugal, Italy or to an EU candidate such as Poland? No, Mr Dyson threatens to go to the Far East. Like so many entrepreneurs, he wants a cheap currency and low interest rates, but also low inflation, low wages, a flexible labour market and low regulation. He will not find them in the eurozone.” Lord Tebbit, a former Secretary of State for Trade and Industry, also questioned Dyson’s motives and said: “[W]hat still puzzles me is why such a euro-enthusiast as [Mr] Dyson does not intend to establish his new factory in Europe if he can’t have it in Britain.”

In 2014, Dyson said he would now be voting to leave the European Union to avoid being “dominated and bullied by the Germans”. In November 2015, Dyson lost his case against EU energy labelling laws in the European Court of Justice. Dyson was one of the most prominent UK business leaders to publicly support Brexit before the referendum in June 2016. Since the EU referendum, Dyson has stated that Britain should leave the EU Single Market and that this would “liberate” the UK economy."

I have a Henry…


(Roger Hudson) #39

Sad to say this is fair reflection of what the UK has become - a selfish, inward looking, elitist home for xenophobes, racists and chancers.


(Robert Hodge) #40

I think that’s a bit strong Roger. Could it not be that the symptoms you refer to are brought about by the fact that the country is becoming full up with people and simply cannot cope with further uncontrolled increases in population for the time being. The pressure on the NHS, the housing crisis, and the excessively congested roads and railways are surely all evidence that the real problem is perhaps too many people per acre.
My family all live in the UK and I’m confident that there isn’t one amongst them who could accurately be described in the terms you mention.