Mocking and insulting any one is not on and religion is a very delicate subject to tango with.
1 Like
No Stella, Iâm probably the one getting my words all wrong.
I guess Iâm trying to say that banning something because criminals might try to use it to commit crime/evade capture is an absurd argument. Itâs possibly used by those who want to âcop outâ of their real reasons for wanting the veil banned.
You have already clearly stated your reasons and good for you.
Those who say it should be banned because men are forcing women to wear it are just as bad as those men. No one should be proscribing what women should or should not wear.
I rather wonder if a Ban is necessary if folk who wear face-coverings (of whatever sort) are willing to leave them off in public places⊠or to remove them without fuss, if politely asked to do so⊠in public places.
3 Likes
Yes Mandy. If the woman is wearing a covering because itâs her choice thatâs fine. I have already said ( and been ignored) that my female Muslim friends wear many (if any ) different headwear, one young girl wears tight jeans and a tee shirt but chooses to cover her hair All intelligent women making their own choices
2 Likes
Absolutely Nellie, spot on. The Koran calls for women (and men) to dress modestly and this is interpreted in many different ways by Muslim women around the world. Thatâs why they wear everything from a burqa to a simple headscarf. It should always be the womanâs choice to dress how SHE sees fit in accordance with HER faith.
Itâs wrong for men to dictate what women wear just as it is also wrong for the law to do the same.
1 Like
Hummm
Iâve been thinking about this in the context of a desire to reside permanently in France.
If you donât accept the French culture (such as set out in an earlier post about refusing to shake the hand of an official at the naturalisation ceremony) then in my humble view you donât deserve to enjoy the hospitality of your host nation.
Itâs not French to wear the niqab but, being a catholic country it is French to wear a crucifix (but not mandatory).
In some states, itâs illegal to drink alcohol; if you donât like that, or simply canât comply (because your dose of strong lager at 9am is an absolute must) then donât go there. If you do and donât comply, expect the consequences.
I see the problem as a confused nation of mongrels who canât work out who they really are so try to be everything to everyone and that just canât work.
1 Like
Many of us are mongrelsâŠBoris fir instance.
good analogy Barbara, he just seeks out all the bitches on heat⊠
1 Like
Graham, France is a not a (Roman) Catholic country. Secularism (laïcité) is a core concept in the French constitution.
âLa France est une RĂ©publique indivisible, laĂŻque, dĂ©mocratique et socialeâ (Article 1)
2 Likes
We might discuss how a ban on the niqab or burqa will be enforced.
A woman déclinés to remove her garment when politely required by a police officer, or security guard, having been reported by a member of the public in La Poste.
How will her misdemeanour/crime be handled from that point on? On the spot fine? Arrest and custody? Any unforseen consequences on the spot? Protests from bystanders? Arguments amongst bystanders? Public disorder? Crowds gather around the Gendarmerie? Tear gas, batons?
Watch this space, citoyens/citoyennes.
Darn it! Got there before me Peter (or can I call you Pete? 
).
France is a secular country as you say and donât even teach religion in state schools any more.
why would anyone refuse a polite request�?
Call me Pete, Mandy, trend set by Bill Morgan, after the fashion of Herman Melvilleâs novel âMoby Dickâ of which the famous opening line is âCall me Ishmaelâ. 
1 Like
Well, donât tell anyone Pete but my full first name is Amanda although Iâve always felt that was a bit âposhâ and a bit of a mouthful at 3 syllables. Iâm usually known as Mandy. Even that is one syllable too many for most of my family and friends who usually drop the âyâ as well. 
1 Like
I imagine they may refuse if the person asking is a man although they should have no problem with a woman asking provided they can remove it in private.
On principle, Stella, on principle. The principle being that asking a woman to remove an item of clothing is a violation of her rights as a citizen to identify as an observant Muslim woman, and to preserve her modesty in line with her constitutional and human rights.
The policeman will probably be asked to prove that he had grounds for suspicion that she posed a risk to public safety or national security.
Good luck with that one!
Iâm on exactly the same page, Mandy. Peter is too⊠er, polite ? Rather stuffy as well. My Dad always called me pog and that stuck with early family members, but all but one are now gone beyond⊠
1 Like
They may indeed, but I imagine it might be under protest, and it would turn into a toxic situation overall. Having removed her garment to show her face in private, would she be required to keep it off on her journey home? The whole thing is a legal/human rights quagmire. And for what reason? Public safety? Itâs a nonsense IMO.
1 Like
You got it half right Babs, Iâve got a âsteakhouseâ size chip on both shoulders!
I well understand the principles of lĂ€icitĂ©, it is a well understood principle - separation of State and religion but I donât think that is what I was deferring to when I said France is a «catholic» country. but rather that she is catholic by nature.
«Christianity» today accounts for between 63-66% of the total population with the «Roman Catholics» accounting for 83% of all Christians.
And, whilst it may be changing in modern times, woman are still secondary in importance to men (barricades himself under the stairs and tapes up the windows!) - a very catholic trait.
BTW, Iâm agnostic and I like to eat so I treat my OH with tremendous respect 
2 Likes