Carte de sejour Nigella's dad and I are applying!

Don’t disagree David, only time will tell.

The world will never change. If people can be enchanted by Farrage what hope is there?.People will always follow some notion or another imagining that they understand what they hear or read.
Whilst we have leaders who are not sincere and clear of the final destiny there will be a divide…always.
And it is the leaders who provoke the divide.

This is a rare example where I almost agree with you Barbara, the problem is both main parties are divided on Brexit so even if Labour were in power the negotiating position would still be as chaotic.

Without trying to pick a fight Tim I feel that you would not enjoy fully agreeing with me.
Every aspect of Brexit was brought on by stimulating hatred?

If you say something that I agree with then I’ll tell you but as individuals we have different ways of looking at things so that’s unlikely to happen.

The hatred/prejudice was already there, Brexit just made it more visible and almost legitimate.

Barbara, you’re generalising again. It’s as useless as saying, perhaps “every aspect of Remain was brought on by creating a fear of leaving”. (by the way, I just made that up to show how generalised it can be as it’s the view of a couple of my Remain friends). Please try and keep an open mind that others, who don’t agree with you, have equally valid - but different - points of view.

I think that it is fair to say Simon, that everyone resident in the UK is affected by EU rules and regulations in some way or another. Additionally it is also fair to say that many of those rules are in fact good ideas that may well have been enacted by Parliament in any case, such as the rules governing safe working practises. On the other hand, is it such a good idea that the EU should enforce minimum rates of VAT and Excise Duties which restrict the Chancellor’s hand when it comes to budgetary needs. Then there are the fishing quotas we have all heard about, and also the rules requiring the UK to enforce the EU’s External Borders tariffs and quotas, not to mention the rules which prevent the UK from entering into trade agreements with traditional trading partners from outside the EU.
Some of the EU rules are good, and others less so, and it will be good to be able to keep the best rules from the EU era whilst dispensing with others that create restrictions not desired by the UK.

remain brought on stimulating love.

I know exactly what you mean. This sort of thing is the future.

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Generalising yes…necessary!
Yes the hatred and prejudice was already there and Brexit stimulated it…you merely said that Brexit made it more visible…not so different Tim just a few words changed here and there.
Fear of leaving!
Being part or Europe works…do you recall what we had before we joined the European Union?
Why give way to prejudice?

Rees-Mogg peddles this type of view. Only in the most abstract sense - the one which ignores the fact that we have to interact with the rest of the world - is this true.

Back in the real world it is a bad and unworkable idea, there is a good explanation as to why here https://www.ft.com/content/1ce27838-d370-11e7-8c9a-d9c0a5c8d5c9 (although I’m afraid this is behind a pay-wall).

Under WTO rules you are not allowed to offer lower tariffs to one trading partner than another - this is known as the “Most Favoured Nation” rule, it can be overridden by treaties and customs agreements but we won’t have those immediately after a hard exit - thus if we allow EU goods in with no tariffs we are obliged to let everyone else’s goods in, at all our borders, not just NI/Ireland or face potential legal action.

We could do that, certainly, but it’s probably not a great idea - it would (eg) wipe out tariffs that protect UK farmers from cheap meat imports. Apparently RM doesn’t care about farmers as he wants to be able to import cheap meat from the 'States anyway (though apparently not understanding that an American sirloin is a completely different, cheaper, cut than a British sirloin) but I don’t think bankrupting large amounts of UK agribusiness will go down well with either the farmers or the public.

Under the same rules the EU is obliged to put checks on its side as well, in fact, as potentially, the UK would then be a route for any old crap that (say) the Chinese want to sell into the EU, they will most definitely want to check goods flowing back into the EU.

There is more - read the article in the FT if you can.

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At some point Barbara you will have to accept that unless something drastic occurs Brexit (for good or bad) is going to happen and move on.

Not entirely convinced it will Tim :slightly_smiling_face:

The UK public (of all persuasions) are fed up with Brexit and just want it over with so they can get on with their lives, stopping it now would simply start the whole referendum argument all over again, in addition, how do you think the EU would feel towards the UK if it said ‘oops we’ve made a mistake, can we just pretend it never happened’?

I think the EU would be delighted to retain the UKs contributions Tim :wink:

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The EU have said all along that the UK can change it’s mind. I’m still hoping for a miracle…

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I will be more surprised, if it does happen, than I will be, if it doesn’t :+1:

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So I am not the only one Tim who thinks that this pantomime may not take place.
So off you go Tim put your boxing gloves away.

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The most sensible option at present would be EEA membership; it would get us out of the EU but not disastrously so, we would have to accept free movement but we should control this to the full extent possible under EU law (which allows a number of checks) and with a clear plan to reassess in a few years as to whether we should pull out further or seek to re-join. It doesn’t get everyone all of their desires but heads in the direction the public were conned into saying said they wanted.

It won’t happen, of course; at least May would need to be dragged kicking and screaming to the admission it was the best way forward and the baying of Rees-Mogg and his cronies would be very loud indeed.

“A week is a long time…”, a couple of years, even longer. :slightly_smiling_face:

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