French (cultural) shocks: my top 3 (4)

General Discussion
41

1 - Agree totally though many French drivers have actually improved since the early '70s ! Difficult to believe but true..

2 - No shame whatsoever. The 'OK guv, it's a fair cop' scenario' doesn't really exist in the Hexagon especially when people in public office are concerned.

3 - Again, things are better than before especially when French men realised it was actually an offence to urinate in public. Can't believe the item below is still being produced in France !!![](upload://bnJalDfAWFKhNdXAOrpxc0ptVy0.jpg)Here is a relatively new public urinal in the centre of town. This is probably as near to p****** in public legally as you can get Dan !

4 - French male golfers have to cheat if only to make up for their overall lack of golfing ability. One thing which amuses me is the way they always have a perfect lie, even in heavy rough. Preferred lies for these macho Frenchmen don't only occur on the four-poster ! Since playing on French courses since the '70s including fifteen years working on a course I have to admit to having seen it all. Regarding this topic Dan I have 'seen it and done it all' a few times over. Golf, with it's level of patience and fair play shouldn't be anywhere near France. The 'give up' rate, the rate at which Frenchmen give up after starting is very high which is a pity and probably the main reason why 99.9% of French courses don't make any money.

42

If I had the equipment to do it comfortably you bet I'd pee wherever I needed to al fresco! (Yes I know you can get those funnel thingies but yuck - & what do you do with them afterwards?).

43

Dan, explain how it is condescending? It was an enquiry. I was not considering anybody an ignorant peasant, perhaps more in the opposite direction of the self-appointed gentry who know better than we peasants perhaps. All opinions are just that and no matter whether we agree or disagree including arguing or simply debating those points, they are each person's own position as they see it. So, nothing needs to stop or why bother to ask Ivan's question in the first place? I am also noticing, not say you, that where rather light hearted remarks have been made that others have taken them seriously and taken them in umbrage leading to discussion that the person making the quip never intended. Is that not part of our diversity as well? You have a long relationship with France, so I am surprised what you say comes out as it does. You also omit the knowledge in many cases about how long people who come down either way have been here, some really have been here as long as you. I married a Corsican in 1968, but neither stayed married long enough or had enough to do with this country to qualify for your depth of knowledge and anyway her family were rather anti-France and may well have indoctrinated me to be antagonistic toward a country I like a great deal, for all its flaws. But then show me a country without?

44

Being happy works for me, matey!

Apart from having (mis)spent a lot of my teenage years as a docker in Marseilles plus having taught English in Paris I probably don't have your depth of experience but, then, I would like to live to be a lot older than I am now by just not getting so angry about things beyond my control . And, surely, the way to do that is to have a more relaxed view of life. I'm not being naive, just prudent. Maybe the more laid back style of life is not for you then? Good luck and blessings - karmapachenno.

45

Dear Dan - relax!

Enjoy France, really there is little you can do about other people, events or situations. So don't waste your time and energy worrying about things. I know it sounds a bit puerile and whimsical but I find approaching France and french people with a smile and a big, friendly 'bonjour'. It seems that most french people are then put at their ease and are happier to deal with les anglais. Respect towards others is a very important part of french culture and it is vital you do not come across as aggressive in any circumstances. I understand about 'roulant dans la coffre' and all that 'bad' driving but there is not much you can actively do about it; politicians are the same the world over, forget them; peeing in public has always been the norm in France, regard it as a quaint custom, no one says you should do the same!; as for 'elitist snobs' on SFN? Well, people are entitled to their opinions and, actually, I have gained an awful lot from hearing what others have to say and think that 'pontification' can be very rewarding sometimes for the reader. Don't, please, infer condescension. I'm sure that is never the intent of contributors to this terrifically absorbing and worthwhile site.

Enjoy life! Amicalement, Kit

46

Bearing in mind I’ve been in France exactly 8 years (today) I suppose it’s only as you get more and more involved with life here you get more surprises. I’ve always gone on about ‘cultural differences’ can’t say they’ve ever been a shock as such. But having moved around the UK a lot, I didn’t find moving around France any different really. New places new people to meet, and yes there are differences in the people from Dept to Dept. Accents, ideas, customs seem to be relevant to the locality you are in. I’ve lived in Aude, Herault, Mayenne & Sarthe. Also my attitude is different now, being a singly where before I was half of a couple. That has to make a difference to how I approach things. I like to look, listen and throw myself into things to get them done!



So from start:-

  1. The speed they drive - I’m sure they all have a death wish!
  2. I think they are an inherently shy people! I am often the 1st to say Bonjour,but as soon as I do,I get a reply and a smile. or is it just that I am naturally open and friendly? I don’t know.
  3. The children and young adults are exceptionally polite - compared to UK, I think also because it is the nature of French people not to be rude! What they are like with their own families or close friends I have no idea. I’ve never seen any French person ‘kick off’ at someone else.
  4. The number of Churches everywhere.

    I knew/know France is a ‘Catholic’ country and assumed they all went to Church on A Sunday.

    not all do. So actually much like UK, Weddings,Christenings and Funerals!



    So there are my 4 Culture differences, rather than shocks, that I am aware of. But Don’t get me onto the subject of Official Administration though - it takes forever to get something done, or should I say processed!

Finally I was probably more of a Culture shock to the locals - than they were to me!

47

apart from the unnecessary red tape created to invent roles for the 40% of civil servants & office staff,

1. four rush hours in one day. One at 8am, one at 12 midday, one at 2pm and one after work. and people wonder why the road death numbers are so difficult to bring down - but equally the lack of cat's eyes on larger fast, or darker small roads might also be to blame

2. the rigid educational curriculum that stifles creativity for many pupils..such as waste as there are plenty of (bored)teachers and resources

3. the shocking amount of British immigrants who think they are better than other immigrants 'especially those in the UK!) because they are european and white.("we have the right to be here")

48

One of the advantages of being an immigrant is to be able to compare and contrast the best and worst of social structures, cultural traditions, experiences. The knowledge we have is there to share and it is useful to make societies better off.

Surely, this is mostly what is good about travelling to live abroad and meeting foreigners in your own land. Criticism is not always negative, it can be accepted as constructive

49

Indeed, they knocked on activists door using emergency laws (as post-bataclan)

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/nov/27/paris-climate-activists-put-under-house-arrest-using-emergency-laws

50

The French police & gendarmes have become increasingly gung ho over the past twenty or so years. They have quotas to respect ie. traffic offences and are more desperate than ever to justify their existence.

Underneath it all I believe we are in a kind of 'police state' and it's gonna get a lot worse I feel..

51

Hollande is certainly intent on increasing the size of the forces of law and order; ther's a recruiting drive at present. Certainly the aftermath of the Charlie Hebdo had an element of the Keystone Cops about it. The centrally organised gendarmerie is a military organisation, as are the CRS and RAID. No Dixon of Dock Green!

52

Simon..I have absolutely no evidence ..in my experience...that could support such a statement. What draws you to that conclusion?

53

I'm happy to identify any/all *personal attack*..weight, appearance, clothes..as out of bounds!.Of course I dont have any right to take anyone apart ...unless their personal appearance is somehow a part of their public duty!! All of that I think of..as almost always...just bad manners! In argument/debate...personal attack is useless... as ad hominem fallacy...but no one on the planet will tell me to shut up if/when innocent people are being roughed up and kids gassed with tear gas. I am still not sure of the truth of it...clearly...some people may have a vested interest ...in painting les flics as rotters. I'll never do that without good reason.. Is the only way to find out...to zoom up to Calais with my vid camera and discover the truth for myself? If so...then there are no more culture shocks I need think on...it could be downhill all the way...from now.

54

Good point Véronique!

55

Simon - when I'm paranoid I think the whole world is a police state :)

Then I correct myself and become a realist saying 'not yet but very soon'

:)
Cheers

56

Maybe its out of context but I'm posting it anyway.

Once I read a quote saying:

We have 100% Identity = No Racism.

The problem today with what people label "racism" is the loss of cultural identity. That's brought forward by a couple and more of reasons: globalisation, technology, fast communication, liberalism of markets (vs protectionism) etc.etc.

All this and similar factors are to a degree entrenched in one another.

Think also at overpopulation and declining growth of population on other half. Racism to me in the 80's - 90's had a different collocation than it has today.

Some people are easily labelled racist simply because they want to conserve their cultural identity and not be swept away by an increasing pace.

Again, this may be out of context from what you personally experience and described above. But maybe It can be helpful to understand that there is a sense of protectionism inherent in France, a folk that is proud about its heritage and sometimes very afraid to see it passing.

My personal recipe (if I ever going to be politician) is a mixture between two worlds: Innovation and Tradition.

The world must innovate but cannot loose its roots. I'm a fond supporter of "If your in France do like the..." but then again this often is compromised with a sense of not challenging ourselves (to growth).

France needs some dynamism, more entrepreneurial friendly spirit, but not repeat mistakes other countries (for instance Germany) have done in wanting to become more competitive (often at the expense of its citizen or neighbor). That's a big challenge, we all face, to open up , challenge ourselves without loosing our roots, traditions, shortly our backbone, actually enhancing or reinforcing our image in the world.

57

I assure you that there is. My students wholeheartedly confirm this. Try using the word 'race' in a sentence. What is NOT in the rencensements also is telling.

58

It all depends on how you say things - I haven't ever had any trouble, but then I'm French - so I suppose it isn't the same for me, because French people don't see whatever I have said as 'a foreigner criticising them' & they aren't so defensive.

59

mmmmmm Véronique - try criticising..... the way someone looks, their weight or what they're wearing, the way people perform their jobs, the local champagne socialists in the Conseil Général, M. le Président, the Maire who's held his post for the last 150 years, the poor state of the local roads / infrastructure, Marine le Pen, 'French' food, religion, the quantity of bread that's eaten, the lack of low sugar or sugar free products and, to round off with my particular favorite...... customer service :-) (for starters)

60

Good grief Frances, who are these people that you know??? I don't know anyone with paranoia about speaking their mind in case they end up in gaol... I live in the sticks among people with widely varying levels of education but I can assure you that there is nothing that "cannot be said".