My gut feeling is a mix is best, it might take protection from, say, 85% to 95% . But certainly diminishing returns and thus maybe disproportionate risk. That’s why I’m mulling it over now. 
Hi Jane, within the herd immunity i do mean children and all those who dont object getting vaccinated. You are right the virus will evolve to infect the remaining vulnerable eg the young. It seems the later mutations do affect the young more now. Interesting to note that the 1917 Spanish flu epidemic killed more the late teens to early 30’s, as it had evolved from fragile front line troops in the trenches.
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725, 000 vaccines given in France yesterday - the most in a single day so far.
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My comment was not actually directed at you! It was more to suggest that rather than pick at you to change your mind, people could just let you go your own road without criticism by thinking of their role, not yours.
Although I do actually know two people who have decided not to have the vaccine exactly because they are that shallow! No political or scientific conviction at all, just can’t be bothered and feel everyone esle will protect them.
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I listened to the Moral Maze on Radio 4 and was surprised that only one person felt that it was a moral choice, all the others opting for social responsibility coming first. Those who were choosing not to be vaccinated were described as ‘free riders’.
The one panel member who felt that it was a moral choice whether or not to be vaccinated or not clarified his thinking with the rider that people must then accept that they need to be tested more regularly or even isolated.
I have never,ever, heard the panel come out with such unanimity and I must admit I was surprised and delighted.
We have just had our second jab today, AZ and I will be booking a table at the village restaurant for two weeks ahead.,
In a word…no 
The problem with the “anti-vax” position is it’s without any scientific merit. It’s akin to shouting at the clouds to discuss this with anti-vaxxers, as their position is absolutely entrenched. As, to be fair, is mine! But mine is entrenched in ACTUAL MEDICAL RESEARCH and not heresay and Facebook posts. In so far as I’ve actually bothered to read the trial papers quite carefully, because that’s how I am.
I understand wanting to be informed about what someone’s going to inject into you. I don’t understand refusing the enormous body of scientific research stating these vaccines are safe because… Why?
The reality is most anti-vaxxers are vaccinated, whether they like it or not. The poor souls didn’t die of TB or measles or tetanus or whatever else they were vaccinated against against their precious will. But now, for reasons they struggle to explain beyond vagaries around “freedom”, or outright proven lies around autism, they suddenly no longer want any vaccines.
What “freedom”? The freedom to infect people around them? The freedom to breed vaccine escape variants in their unvaccinated population? What cost comes with their perceived freedom? There’s a famous expression around the subject of freedom that goes something along the lines of your freedom ends the moment you begin to harm others. You can stick your “personal choice”, as one poster put it, when you’re talking about a personal choice that actively harms other people’s quality of life. Whether you like it or not, refusing to partake in a global vaccination program to stop the progression of a pandemic is harming others. You can dress it up how you like, but there’s no escaping that reality.
I have friends in Asia who view this whole anti-vax thing in Europe with absolute incredulity. We would be a laughing stock, except it’s not funny. Lives are literally at stake.
I find it amazing that people on this forum are actually taking the trouble to say it’s a freedom of speech thing. It’s almost like a dare to the moderators, if you cut us off you’re anti democratic.
Nonsense. The real danger here is ignorant people, stuck in their selfish ways, who don’t recognise that everything they’re saying and doing defies logic, sense AND, above all, the public good.
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What stunned me even more is to find out that medical professionals are happy to undermine vaccination campaigns.
We met a naturopath at the weekend who was very open about how easy it is to get forged medical/vaccination certificates. She was proud of having achieved that for all her family. And proud that she won’t wear a mask as if she were some kind of modern day Rosa Parks. Rather than a self - centred #$%^
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752,000 vaccines in France on Thursday 3rd June - the most so far - congrats to everyone concerned.
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Might be unpopular attitude…but I think people who won’t have it are selfish, and self centered.
Govs should stop pussy footing around and allow proprietors of retail, hospitality and employers et al to make vacination a requirement prior to delivering services or employment.
I’m no right wing authoritarian but it’s such a unique human risk, and disrupter of normal life that an exception normal liberty is justified.
The doubters delight in trying to be more knowledgeable and informed than the experts with years of vaccine expertise, the risk is minute, and blown up out of all proportion and we have two friends who have long covid…they never had the luxury of having a jab to avoid or reduce the disease.
I just want rid of it, to be able to travel again, go out without a bloody mask and have our kids here!
…rant over !
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And there is also the Hippocratic oath…first do no harm…it applies to vets too.,
My own view is that sometime soon we will see cases in the Supreme Courts and the Nuremberg court…Dershowitz 
said as much right at the start when many of us knew right at the start of “two weeks to flatten the curve” that this would be all about a “vaccine”
Del of the highwire had Dershowitz on his show to try and bring transparency and to try and find a middle ground…(as did Robert f Kennedy jr of Children’s health defence…)
I freely admit the hairs on the back of my neck were standing on end and my heckles were raised the whole time Del was talking to Dershowitz…
Dershowitz said he would be willing to defend enforced vaccination of the unwilling many to protect the few…He has only one very debatable precedent to go by…
A scary story - but I don’t think a Naturopath qualifies as a medical professional. Naturopathy is based on pseudo-science, eschews evidence-based results and doesn’t seem to have any factual merit at all.
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OK I saw what you did there. You’ve just described the UK govt
I certainly agree that the present uk government is about as helpful in solving real-world problems as the average naturopath…
I think all those médecines douces and alternative therapies are great for people who aren’t actually ill but feel a bit rubbish for whatever reason, but it isn’t legitimate so complain so they aren’t listened to by actual medical doctors, so these others give attention and make people perhaps look after themselves a bit more day to day so obviously they feel better.
I have said this before but years ago when I was working for MSF with people who had real diseases and real injuries we used mainstream medicine because we were dealing with real problems. Funny that. I do think all this parallel medicine is great for the disorders of people with too much money and free time, I know this sounds really mean but it isn’t meant that way.
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Who’s in on this big conspiracy? Who’s responsible?
Yes and no. In the same way that people chewing bits of willow bark has evolved into popping an aspirin tablet, some 40% of the common drugs we use are plant based. And more are emerging from alternative medicine that show promise. And could produce cost-effective treatments that are easy to make locally.
And another side of it is the importance of the microbiome, which is currently not mainstream medicine. But it should be. Yes if you are starving then you don’t have the luxury of choice. But most here do, and can help their own health and hopefully even avoid illness that would take up a doctor’s time.
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I do think @vero is right and was delighted she said what I also think.
However if you meet the right practitioner for “you” or one of the practitioners that has a true “gift” or a natural talent to heal or ability to sense, that can’t be explained according to what conventional medicine currently knows, then they can ease conditions and may literally have the power to save your life.
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Yes, of course - after all what do you call plant or mineral-based ‘alternative’ medicine that has actual active ingredients eg not homoeopathy?
Medicine.
Effective plant-based drugs aren’t alternative medicine to my mind. Colchicine for gout, digitalis for hearts, there are loads and not woo at all.
I don’t know for sure…it appears to be quite an extensive and intertwined network and like many I have been down lots of rabbit holes…
Certainly seems to have made some very wealthy billionaires more billionairish…even trillionairish…
I don’t like listening to klaus shwab’s vision of the future although I do but he’s definitely one of those that set my spidey senses on edge…
If the powers that think they be would leave the children and young folk (and pregnant women and babies) out of their planned mass vaccination programmes I would probably quieten down a bit…
I’ve watched footage that really disturbs me like for instance a young mother dragged out of a shop by her hair in front of her toddler for not wearing a mask and then her head and face stamped on by the security guard…
Today I watched a row of police blocking concerned parents from entering a shopping mall where young kids were being coerced into getting injected by the offer of a free ice cream…
Then that mother who was breast feeding her newborn baby 2 days after her second Pfizer injection and the newborn died from internal haemorrhageing…some might say well it’s only one baby…
Maybe fauci’s emails will unravel the situation further…???