Logic for Leave?

Oh dear, has he got antibiotics to take?

Bless…not a nice experience…I’ve always got homeopathic ā€œfirst aidā€ remedies on hand…for bites and stings I’ve always got homeopathic Apis mellifica…Ledum Pal (all puncture wounds)…Formica Rufa…staphysagria

Worth having all those remedies to hand at 30c…plus taking homeopathic aconite concurrently as the body first goes into ā€œshockā€ā€¦:heart:

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Oh yes! And the rest!

Absolutely! But he didn’t even notice it happen - if it even was a bite!

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Or ensure that you have done everything possible to be on a train heading to the destination of your choice. Britain was right up there with the drivers and navigators but instead of using her influence has opted to jump out in the middle of nowhere.

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I did not call you a selfish person.
Not caring about the outcome because you did not have a vote is a position I find extremely hard to understand.
We have family in UK and a daughter in Munich who is now having to take German citizenship.
There is much wrong with the EU but there are other countries who are as concerned about the lack of financial transparency and decisions made by non elected people and it would surely make more sense to change things from within than to say that all problems were caused by immigration.
Taking back our borders is the problem which may cause the whole thing to fall flat on its face and are the Spanish really going to be helpful over Gibralter?
Past experience would say not.

Here is factual information put in a simple way, easy to understand.

I’ve been knocking about here for a month or two. I was grateful to receive some useful info from a number of you regarding my assessment of whether France was a potential place to move to based on my situation; 49, a bit of money from my house equity, more money from savings, some money in SIPP’s (not a fortune but its all relative).

Whether I moved to Spain or France it would have been because it suited me. I do like both countries and others in Europe but the driving forces were; house price costs, cost of living, taxation, healthcare. These are primarily selfish motives and drivers - given I didn’t intend on working.

I’ve crunched some more numbers and to be honest they suggest I would be better staying put and just moving a few hours further north in the UK. It shifts the emphasis from looking for a permanent home abroad to perhaps looking at renting for a few months a year wherever takes my fancy or perhaps buying an apartment better suited to holidays. I get to retain my tax benefits linked to my pension aswell.

Brexit wise - I work in financial services. Many of my peers are not unintelligent bigoted people. Like me they are offended by the suggestion - I like to think I know my own mind and they their’s, many more of them voted leave than remain.

The key issues for me were around; uncontrolled movement of people, a disparity between non EU and EU migrants, a divergence of vision between those at the heart of the EU project and those on the fringes like the UK who only ever wanted a trade deal. The European court, the European legislature, the lack of consensus between UK and other member states, the costs associated with membership.

Too many veto’s meant for me we didn’t really want to play and had to dance to a tune unfamiliar to us. It’s better we move to a different arrangement and allow the others to do their thing.

None of us know what Brext actually means until we have it delivered and see the results. I don’t respect many ā€œexpertā€ views as predictions and polls are in many cases worthless and politically motivated. That said I acknowledge there will be negatives as well as positives.

I have observed that those of you that have chosen to live in another country are in some cases, as Americans would say, pissed. Poor exchange rates resulting in a lowering of income coupled with an uncertain residency status post Brexit. It should be noted that few in the UK would even consider expats as an affected group and any political pressure to guarantee EU rights has focussed on those in the UK from the EU rather than those from the UK in the EU. I consider this lobbying unfair and one sided, based on the views I’ve read here.

I’m probably not going to look at putting any permanent roots down in Spain or France. Its far simpler to holiday and for me there are advantages in doing so. This highlights the fact that what we choose to do is suited to us rather than for others (broadly).

I wish you all well, it was mostly fun and informative. Au revoir :slight_smile:

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Mr Martin,
Reading your post it would seem that whilst you take offence at certain aspects of the Brexit argument when someone gives a point of view it is o.k. to somewhat arrogantly say ā€˜good reasons’ have to be given and all will be well! Surely you can accept that an opposing view, whilst you don’t agree with it, you respect it?

My second point concerns your Father. Your Father fought for the freedom of Europe, the right to forge one’s destiny via the ballot box. I don’t know of anyone who has claimed that our fathers (mine fought also) fought so they could vote ā€˜leave’!

Surely the referendum, on which you seem not to agree with the result, is a result of the very freedoms our fathers fought for? He may well have stated people don’t know what they are talking about but non the less he fought so that they could indeed vote!

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You wrote about the people who died in WW2(?) implying that being part of the EU was not what they fought for. I’m saying that’s not correct. Many of the people who fought in that war would have voted Leave, others Remain. I also find your reply hypocritical as surely it’s you who cannot accept the views of others. Personally I don’t believe that I take offence, I question posts that I believe are incorrect or based on false beliefs. I also believe that the phrase I’m looking for is, I don’t suffer fools… My posts are backed up by facts. Perhaps you are a modern man and don’t believe in trivialities like that.
If somebody at a dinner table addressed me as formally as you have I would stop talking to them and move my focus elsewhere. Goodbye Mr Wheatley.

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First I made no such implication. That your interpretation leads you to that I’m afraid I can’t help. So you are free to say whatever! Yes many would have voted to leave, and many would have voted to stay. Is there a point to that statement?
You are wrong, I do accept the views of others. No problem at all with that. I accept that you think I am the one who cannot accept another’s views!

As for the rest of your post, Oh dear; I seem to have touched a nerve! All in my opinion, of course!

@anon18525102, please could you limit the use of exclamation marks in your posts as I feel as though I’m being shouted.

Thanks

It’s me who is being shouted at Tim.

The implication not made by Mr Wheatley.

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Great post Iron duke, I think you and Elizabeth have made some excellent well written and well mannered points. I’ve had a few friends refuse to talk to me since the vote and to be honest if they are so closed minded that they cannot even listen to a different point of view good luck to them.

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Let me make it quite clear.
I came here as a European citizen and all that is changing and I have never been so angry in all my life.
I have written to people who I used to call friends to tell them that , on the advice of both the British and French governments, we are having to put together 42 page dossiers to enable us to legally continue to live in our own home.
Brexit is a disaster and I can and never will accept that it is for the best for either the UK or Europe.
Little Englanders are not welcome in our home.

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David, if you look at the letters page of the Connexion you will see that Kenneth Wheatley is an apologist for Nigel Lawson, who as well as being pro Brexit runs a pressure group of global warming deniers.

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Hi Jane,
I’m curious what 42 page file do we need to compile? As I thought It’d been just an online request then a trip to the Prefecture for the finger print & Titre de SĆ©jour.

No you have to provide utility bills and proof of residence from your Mairie.
Birth certificates, pension income, photos etc.
It is the UK who is trialling an app.
Nothing quite so simple here in France.
Also you have to the same for each person, even if it is the same information.
You can get a list from your Prefecture of what they require.
I believe they are not all quite the same.

Here’s the on line form & requirements, no mention of Birth certificates.


also a couple of screen shots for those on a pension & working.