Not sure if I understand the relationship which parents have with their children

Animals
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We recently went to a wedding which was held at a private house in the beautiful gardens.

In the gardens strutting around in all their majestic glory four peacocks,when suddendly two young boys started to chase and grab the tails of the peacocks ,two managed to fly up onto a wall .

But to have to witness such brutal and I am not exagerating!" I know what children can be like",behaviour was not acceptable.

This was stressing the birds out to the anoyance of many guests.

But the parents carried on chatting to their friends in complete ignorance of what was unraveling around them.

I caught up with one of the boys as did another decent human being and told them off!!

Only then did the parents stop talking and had a go at myself and this other person for telling their child off when in there words "oh for goodneess sake get a life,they are having fun".

I am not saying all children are selfish,but unfortunately I see a lot of badly behaved children with parents who turn a blind eye.

There is a generation of spoilt I WANT I DESERVE IT'S MY RIGHT kids who unfortunatly have parents who no know different themselves.

I salut my parents it's not an easy job,but if you give up on your own kids or give in to them,how on earth will they ever learn to become decent human beings.

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Yes...YES...YES.

Which brings me Carol back to the begining.

From what I have seen and what I know of children in UK there seems hardly a NO

No you can not have this and No you should not do that...too much...TOO soon and

far to often. Life does not work like that in the grown ups world.

If you are a parent you owe it to your child to teach them right from wrong and

to devoute time to that rather than put them in the Nanny world.

I do not see the same problem here ....possibly because we are not overloaded with

designer clothes and livin nannies.

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You are describing poor mothering skills... evidenced by the fact you say your friend scowled...any sensible mother would have told her child firmly...no, but would have explained why she shouldnt keep disturbing the hen, and not left it to you and your mother to sort out. Invariably...poor behaviour in kids due to parental laxity.

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but.. there are 6 year old kids today talking about, playing with, and watcvhing things we would have had to have been 12 to see, back in the day. I see kis here in France being told "non", onw and then, and actually complying. In Ireland, I rarely hear "no", and when I, myself recently said it to the six year old daughter of a very close friend, i got scowled at, by both mother,AND child, and, well, child didn't listen, and mother didn't care. My mother then stepped in, and, she got her result, but let's just say, my very close friend will be meeting me out for coffee or in her house next time, she will no way bring her child back to my mother's home.

all this because the child would not leave alone a CHICKEN who was laying an egg. She kept opening the door, and i explained that, "very soon, she'll come out, make a load of noise, and then we'll go see the egg she made", but she could not wait, being told 3 times is maybe curiousity, but 5th, sixth time, sorry, it's downright brazen. In the end, my mother said "Will you just leave my hen alone please".. then came the scowls, me awkwardly excusing her outburst, followed by a small explanation of how we had asked time and time again, but the child, in my eyes was being a brat.

The mother still stands behind her daughter, but what if it were a dog. What if that dog bit her. That would be MY fault in her eyes.

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Ive seen that comment recently....and apt....I see nice kids and awful kids in equal numbers wherever I go...didnt the brits used to say that years ago about the American children....kids have an awful lot to deal with now....including huge pressure to be part of the popular culture and wear appropriate clothes, have appropriate toys...children in previous times had a simpler life...

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While I agree with most that it is a sweeping statement, and perhaps a little unfair, EVERY time I visit Ireland, and see all my family, and old friends, and most of whom have small children, I am absolutely disgusted. We all talk about leaving a better planet for our kids, but nobody seems to think about leaving better children for our planet. All I see is brats.

47

carol, that is exactly my point about 'unfinished' at end of life in, I will speculate, many if not most cases. so sure, standards change but didn't they always or we would not be where we are as 'civilised' beings now.

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agree Brian..I am certainly nothing like the teenager I was in the 70s! but dont we change continually throughout life? as far as rights go....my daughter used to say the rights they were always alluding to....was regarding what teachers were allowed or more accurately not allowed to do with regard to schoolchildren!

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probably 'knowing rights' is as you say, yet ask kids which specific rights they have protected by international convention they will shrug their shrug their shoulders in 9 out of 10 cases. What young people do because of peer pressure helps shape them - as in our turn - but it is not the adult most become. Childhood and youth are transitions, some of which is good and bad depending on how those are defined by the rest of us. The young person is not the defining or defined individual, if that person ever indeed comes to be.

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Brian..dont you think the whole thing about...knowing ones rights...is to do with self preservation...kids who present with that attitude, surely are showing that they feel they need to protect themselves...because no one else is looking to do that for them...I was disturbed listening to a programme the other evening...about young girls in large UK cities...trying to gain acceptance within gangs...they willingly let gang members use them sexually and pass them around..they accept violence..and truly believe that is their lot...a huge enditement on society...

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Very profound last phrase Brian, like it ;-)

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"I know my rights" is a rhetorical device with nothing much to do with what I work with. Duties and responsibilities are as much toward oneself as toward others and probably the majority go unnoticed developing them whilst those who transgress standards attract disproportionate amounts of attention and are thus taken to be the norm. Behind the facade of the child we see, there is an individual looking for their place in the world, which many of us never achieve to our final day in the world.

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this is a discussion I have had with my teacher daughter frequently. In this instance I can only speak for the UK, Dubai and Thailand..where she has taught..and/or where I have have had direct experience. Children now...seem to be fully aware of their rights...no idea they have responsibilities...again..I hate generalising...but there is an element of...I know my rights...! some children are well aware that as an 'apprentice adult' they have responsibilities from the word go....nature versus nurture...I dont know...but I do know that my three chlidren brought up identically all have widely different politics...ideas on responsibilites towards society etc...so I guess we must be aware that nature and the personality you are born with...has a huge influence on the final adult...

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;-)

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no, they fortunately died a death last week...

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p.s. having jumped into the conversation and 'deviated' somewhat, I have to catch up on all the doggie analogies that follow!!??

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Ah yes, but there you are Carol...you wouldn't have become a dull mother anyway...you are not defined by your work, you're defined by your energy and love of people (which thankfully can go beyond our children!) but the medium for you just happens to be through the job you know...and I don't believe that people should 'retire' from something if they get so much out of it....so I guess we should carry on doing what we love for as long as we can!!! :D

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haha! no Sharon...I meant I would have been duller...I love work life...I am a nurse and had some fascinating jobs...I stayed home with my kids till the youngest went to school..had 3 kids in two and a half years...so did 6 years at home...then worked as a night nurse...so was up to take them to school and got up to pick them up...I am just someone that needs the stimulation of work as well as family life....look at me now...! came over with my husband to retire..and I go back every year to work for 6 - 9 months as I miss it too much and cant find work here. Most of my work involves campaigning for a better deal for people with disabilities or poor upbringing/life choices...I feel my work defines me.. thats just me.... :-)

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Oh no Carol, was thoroughly enjoying your intelligent comments until you made the statement, 'I would have been a far duller mum without the career..'!!! Why??? I've had five kids and it's been my life's work to be a mum!!! I never had a dull time with them, (though I had some very dull times at 'work') we moved around europe and I worked or studied inbetween the babies....but never went for the 'career' as bringing up a family is such a huge challenge. But I also lived through the decades where women had to do it all/have it all, and I suppose I never quite got over the put-down of being a 'stay-at-home' mum!!!! (good conversation point btw Barbara)...

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Imagine my feeling of eternal irony having put well over a decade of my academic life toward finding out what I have probably known since I was about eight!