QAnon - Mmm. Has the States gone mad, or maybe I'm just getting old?

Trump had to settle accounts of fraud with regard to his College of Real Estate before he could run for President. What a start.

On the other hand why keep eating the corpses of other creatures anyway?

In the present climate I’d be cautious about leads predicted by opinion polls but, such as it is, that has to be good news.

The electoral college system has, as with FPTP in the UK, the flaw that it can elect a president who has lost the popular vote - as it did with Trump. In theory the college members do not have to follow the majority vote in their state but in practice they do. How things would be different if sufficient actually did stand up and say “Hillary won, we will adjust our vote to return her to the White House” (OK we could just have had a Democratic tyrant but would she really have been worse).

Unfortunately the founding fathers did not take into account that the electoral college might not “do the right thing” or that a rogue president could bend congress to his will via his influence on the largest party - basically they protected the state against a rogue president (presidential power has significant limitations) but they failed to protect the populace from a rogue state.

Also, it saddens me that the US system does not seem to be able to muster support behind younger candidates. Trump is 74, Biden 77 and Sanders 78 FFS!

1 Like

It happens throughout nature, always has.
But it has been said that the most precarious position is at the top of the food chain. . . . .

Just a thought - is this subject drifting rather a lot? (No boating pun intended) i seem to be responding to America voting (which is broadly the subject title) to chlorinated chicken, and now boats and boating?
Or is it just that I am a daft old fart having problems puttng the threads together?

We are charognards, there’s a charming thought…

Not at all. It’s “stream of consciousness.” Very avant-garde!

There is a widely held misconception (including by most US citizens) that Americans go to the polls in November every four years to elect their President which is simply untrue.
The President is elected by the members of the Electoral College in December, and what happens in November is that the people go to the polls in order to REQUEST that the ‘Electors’ of their state vote for a particular candidate in that December election.

In the majority of states the Electors are not required to follow the desire of the people, although they usually do, but they could in fact elect anyone they choose to be President, including someone who had not even been on the ballot paper in the November election.

Most states operate a First Past The Post system when ‘instructing’ their Electors how to vote at the gathering of the Electoral College, but there are a handful of states that instruct their Electors to vote proportionately according to the distribution of the November voting figures.

Although there are 50 states in total, the magic number of 270 Electoral College votes can be achieved if the Electors of the 14 most populated states band together (although this has never actually happened), and that is why election campaigning in the USA tends to be concentrated in those most populated states. Basically, if you live in Wyoming (3 Electors) a person has very little say at all in who becomes President. However, if you live in California, and your vote happens to be the one that just tips the balance to a result of say 20million versus 20million and 1, then your vote has just won 55 Electoral College votes.

The concept of who won the popular vote is technically incorrect and without foundation as no-one other than the Electors of the Electoral College has ever directly voted for any President at all. The system simply does not provide for that.

1 Like

Yes, but look what we got with Cameron!

It just gets worse then, doesn’t it?

True - but most people would understand what is meant. There is, in fact, a “popular vote” and people express their preference for who they want in the White House - the fact that vote indirectly elects the president because all it does is inform the electoral college do not make it any less true that “Clinton won the popular vote”. She did not, however, win the college vote - Because FPTP.

Most people understand what is meant by a liar, but they seem to choose to do nothing about it.

1 Like

Indeed so.

There is an increasingly popular movement towards scrapping the Electoral College altogether and having a simple ‘One Man - One Vote’ across the whole nation so that each person’s vote is of equal value.
Such a move is not supported by either of the main political parties as it would mean their candidate having to campaign in all areas of the country at considerable additional financial cost. With the present system it is not necessary to campaign in places such as Vermont, Delaware, or Montana as each of those states only has 3 Electoral College votes so it really doesn’t matter who the residents of those states vote for.
What really bugs me is when a President starts lecturing other countries about a lack of democratic process when they themselves have been elected by a system which is clearly far from being democratic itself.

3 Likes

Interestingly, if a presidential candidate could win the 11 states comprising California, Texas, Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Ohio, Georgia, Michigan, North Carolina, and New Jersey, then that would secure the 270 Electoral College votes required for victory.
All of the voters in all of the other 39 states could vote for the other candidate and it still wouldn’t change the outcome.
It’s a crazy, outdated, and undemocratic system that needs fundamental change.

4 Likes

Personally, ever since the Brexit referendum I’ve had little confidence in poles (or since Duda, the Poles :flushed:).

I know nothing about horse racing but on the odd occasion I’ve ended up on a course I’ve noted how on occasion in the final furlongs a horse comes from back or mid field and wins. I suspect that’s more to do with fiddling the odds than a sudden burst of unexpected energy or good fetlocks (whatever they may be).

IMO politics now is all about fiddling the odds, and that can produce unexpected results such as Brexit and Trump. It’s not about being a good idea/candidat, not about good policies, not even about having a good campaign team. It’s all about having the best data analysts and social media jockeys. Facebook is the magic sauce that gets the lame old knackers yard candidate across the finish line.

And I wouldn’t be surprised if it happens again.

Which won’t happen anytime soon, bit like the FPTP system in the UK. :wink:

This article does hit the f’ing nail on the head. Cheers.

1 Like

These lunatics (including Trump) are trying to kill us all.

Fingers and toes crossed for November? There must be a way out of the American Asylum!

1 Like

I couldn’t watch all of that clip of the press briefing. It beggars belief that anyone can vote for that mess.