Oh how massively annoying!!!
That is just too confusing! 
my printer and I don’t get on that well.
Instead of 30% tax / social charges on interest, ticking the box means the interest is added to your general income and taxed at that particular level, so if you are on the 0% tax bracket, you wont pay 12.8% taxon the interest.
You might still pay the 17.2% social charges, but hey every euro counts and it’s only ticking a box!
Good luck with the paper - I added the column names I used to the last post.
If you are willing to say, wondering how your naturalisation interview went? Were there any surprises?
Update on my previous post on receiving the letter asking for [quote=“larkswood12, post:299, topic:33843”]
l’attestation d’imposition ou de non imposition de vos revenus de source anglaise
[/quote]
I went to the tax office and the inspector took the 19-20 UK tax return - seems that was fine.
He also stamped the France form individuel for the DTT - though we still don’t have the French TIN’s. Don’t know how much HMRC would want these on the forms…
Added to this thread
I’d be interested to hear how people deal with determining the amount of UK rental income to declare in advance of the 2021 return. I didn’t have any in 2020 but 10K odd in 2021 - I can see the thread advises the boxes to use - one says to enter it before deducting expenses?
I think I’ve also seen people say to declare the amount as determined by HMRC the following year? If so that would be zero for me last UK tax year 2020-21.
Or do people apportion ? Or do they use the France tax regime for calculation - e.g. deducting 30% as expenses?
Should this be a separate thread? - how to calculate the amount to declare of UK rental income for France tax declaration - doesn’t seem to be much on this in SF?
many thanks in advance!
Lots of information in detail from HMRC
Dear customer,
Whatever your level of experience, HMRC’s live webinar provides up-to-date help for landlords of UK property.
Individuals with income from UK residential property : The topics covered include the property income allowance, recording income, expenses, repairs and improvements plus mortgage and finance costs. You can ask questions using the on-screen text box.
For more advice, try our short videos on HMRC’s YouTube channel including:
- Income from property – what do I include on my tax return?
- What allowable expenditure can I claim against Capital Gains Tax?
You can also try our ’ Property rental ’ and ’ Capital Gains Tax for land and buildings ’ toolkits for further help and information.
Yours sincerely
We have two spreadsheets for our UK rental income covering the different accounting periods for the two countries. For both declarations/returns we always show all income and expenses to end up with a net profit (or loss of course) and have never had an issue either with HMRC or the Impots.
Thanks @tim17 and @JaneJones ,
Tim sounds like you declare the relevant amount calculated for each tax regime using their respective allowances? Or the amount using the UK tax regime, using the income and expenditure figures e.g. 2020 for France?
First thoughts are that would be my approach too - just not sure whether to use the France allowances for France or stick to the UK method for France? - if you see what I mean?
Thanks Jane - done several HMRC rent declarations - it’s the France one I’ll be doing for the first time! (FYI I wasn’t renting when I moved to France - had kept it empty to sell as principle residence - then changed strategy!)
What respective allowances?
We declare April to April net profit/loss in the UK and pay no tax as below our personal tax allowances. We then enter a figure on our French tax return which is actually the Jan to December figure (we were told that as long as we were consistent that was ok). But not sure what allowances we could put that against? The figures are pretty similar….
Hello everyone, it’s a bit early but the time is coming. Does anyone have a global rate for 2021 yet?
Is this a euro conversion rate for pounds for tax return? Don’t know what a global rate might be but I’ve been tracking using the european bank and they report an average of 1.1636 for 4 jan - 31 December 2021.
Hope that helps.
I always ask the tax office. They give me a rate that’s valid for the whole year. That’s safest, I reckon.
Apologies for delay - I owe you a reply and I typed it all up just now, then must have hit something tart a new topic and the browser went to start a new topic and I seem to have lost it all. I’ll redo it when I can dictate it - lost the will to retype at the moment.
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Thank you for your answers. Indeed with those tips I could find similar information. I used 1.16… for now. Theoretically you should use the bank de france spot rate (published on line) on the day of payment but I found the method posted here last year to use an average for the year as you can imagine much easier. So now I finished the preparations for the declaration in record time compared with last year.
Hi Jane, Here’s my very delayed reply to your question about allowances…
I asked if people calculate and declare UK rent profit in France using the amount calculated for each tax regime i.e. UK and France, using each country’s respective methods and allowances? Or calculate the amount using the UK tax regime, perhaps adjusting the period e.g. Jan – Dec for France?
You replied that do the latter and asked what respective allowances?
So one example was in the UK you get a tax rebate for mortgage payments and in France they would allow you to deduct the payments from rental income - appreciate you may not have a mortgage.
In France there is a flat rate deduction allowed of 30 or 50% depending on whether property is furnished or unfurnished and various maximum levels of income.
Of course whether France tax authorities would allow French methods and allowances to be used to calculate the UK income would be a question.
They may well take the approach that the UK profit (or loss) should be calculated using UK methods- which is what you do, except you said you did an adjustment to align figures to January to December for France?
I’ve just done my UK tax return for April 2020 to 21 and in fact have a small loss for this year - next year will be back in profit, so that was why I posed the question - do I use the UK loss this year for France 2021 – i.e. declare nothing and then declare the April 2021 to 22 UK profit figure as France income in 2022? (and possibly deducting my finance spend as well).
Or like yourself do some sort of adjustment for the period. I appreciate that once one determines a method one should stick to it and that may be run it past the France tax office before finalising the 2021 declaration. As I didn’t have any rent income in December 2020 I didn’t declare any in that, my first, return. In fact I was considering selling it instead to avoid the CGT but changed my mind.
Being able to utilise a 50% flat rate deduction on UK rental income would be very attractive - I presume it would be down to the individual tax officers to decide?
Finally appreciate this might be better posted in the Filing UK tax self assessment.- UK rental income thread but it is all about filing in France though! Maybe one can cross reference?
Always best of course to speak to your tax office.
For the UK I follow the HMRC guidance about what I can and cannot set against income (posted links further up thread).
Since the amount is only declared in France for them to be able to calculate the sum total of your overall revenue fiscale de référence (RFR - which is an all important figure) I have taken the view that it is not something to tax my brain about. You put UK figure in, it gets used to create your total income, and then the amount is removed before your tax and social charges are calculated. France can’t impose taxes on property in another country.
Thanks. The numbers are bigger for me… I expect I’ll have a large RFR this year and a high tax band. Lucky me!
My understanding is it’s the fraction of total calculated tax apportioned to UK income which is removed from the overall bill - the worldwide income does push one up into the higher tax brackets for the tax calculation (if large enough).
Further to my query whether to calculate and declare UK rent profit in France using the France tax regime - or to use UK HMRC figures, I’ve started to revisit the 2021 guides which I found on the thread.
In the guide for foreign income
under property it has:
Revenus fonciers - Précisez sur la 2047 I’adresse de vos propriétés situées hors de France.
Déterminez les revenus provenant de ces propriétés sur la 2044 , dans les mêmes conditions que les revenus de source française, sauf si votre revenu est imposé selon le régime micro-foncier.
I read this as calculating the rent income to declare using the France rules.
I know others have said they use the HMRC figures, so wondered if anyone had any thoughts on this guidance from the impot?
I guess I can work out the most advantageous for myself and propose it to my tax inspector? My 2020-21 HMRC return now done, duly has a loss for the rent. The 2021 income if calculated with France rules will be a profit.
We hired an anglo-french accountant for our first year’s returns, and we’ve just copied what they did ever since. I can’t say that they were correct in their approach, but that’s life. Anyhow, that was to use each country’s definitions of the allowances and deductions for each country’s respective tax returns.
I suspect that the accountants of other SFfers have advised the opposite.