The Benefits of Vaccination (with thread drift...)

I think that you are being totally disingenuous Helen.
You might be one of the few people who are surrounded by super intelligent people, which I doubt, but there are far more people whose attention span, to say the least is less than it should be. They can’t be bothered to look any further than the headline and they take that as the truth, whereas the 'real ’ meat of the article is further down.
I am amazed that you and your friends seem to be among those who are in the minority who react to vaccination. Is this to do with your lifestyle or something else, as we only know of one person who has had a reaction sufficiently bad to be hospitalised and she is now fine.

My OH was in the NHS most of her adult life starting as a nurse, through to being in charge of a ICU and then management, she talks to her former colleagues a lot now she has retired and they have no horror stories about all their staff/colleagues being sick and not being able to do their jobs what so ever, or is it all another cover-up/conspiracy.
It must be the NHS staff is so much healthier in Scotland compared to the rest of the UK, no all dropping like flies due to being vaccinated :face_with_raised_eyebrow::thinking:

According to The Local.fr protest marches are planned across France today, in at least 26 cities, though nearly all in Central and Southern France, very few in the North and West, where infections are low and vaccination penetration higher.
Despite vocal minority vaccination numbers continue to grow across France by about 280,000 daily.

Can’t read your link… but there’s a similar link below in my daily newspaper… :wink:

(the main photo is from 3rd August and it’s a bit worrying to see that masks were not being worn by a large proportion of the crowd at Pau …)

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I was discussing this with my French neighbours last night: they made a very clear distinction between the covid-deniers, anti-maskers and antivaxers on the one hand, and those opposed to the pass sanitaire on the other. For them, the latter issue is not about covid at all, but about solidarity - fraternité (they are vaccinated and extremely careful about masks, social distancing, etc).

In one of our neighbouring villages all 3 bars and restaurants have decided to temporarily close rather than enforce the pass sanitaire because not all the regulars have one. One of them is a ‘SCIC’ - a kind of community co-operative - ie. it is actually owned and run by the villagers, and constitutionally bound to serve the whole community without discrimination - it is founded precisely on the social solidarity of the village.

Thursday was a bit nerve-wracking…
as our village decided it would certainly be asking for the PS for the evening event…
this info was swiftly spread throughout the commune and beyond so that no-one need be caught out.

One family drove by while we were busy setting things up, they stopped to ask if PS was needed for the soirée…
We explained that YES the PS was necessary to eat/drink on site …
but not necessary for the outdoor market.

I chatted with them for a little while… turns out they lived outside what we call our “catchment area” but not that far away.
so I suggested they pop home and organise the PS then come back and enjoy the fun.
The lady looked crestfallen and explained that “he (the driver) doesn’t agree with it…” … ooops.

Come back, buy some stuff from the stalls… and go home to make supper… was my suggestion but she shook her head… ah well, can’t win 'em all.

As it turned out we had a good crowd despite enforcing the PA.

Yes, we did have a couple of people who argued the toss at the improvised gateway, but they still weren’t allowed through to the eat/drink area.

and the market folk were pleased with their takings… so, it was a good night’s work.

Obviously, we had it lucky… no great crowds of complaining folk… instead it was a festive occasion (still being careful)… which gave a much-needed boost to everyone’s morale.

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Surely social solidarity - being concerned about the wider social implications of all of this - is exactly having a pass sanitaire?

I have yet to see any local round here conform to what I would consider social distancing.

I guess you’re not in Brittany Sue - people here generally are very good, but I have to say we did notice the difference with regard to both masks and social distancing on our recent holiday in the south - where the vaccination take-up is also low compared to the north-west.

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In the abstract, maybe - but when the couple next door have been calling into the village café for a drink together every evening for years - and they are indeed actually members (owners) of the café and have put in a lot of work to set it up and keep it going - and one of them is not vaccinated - then it’s maybe not so simple.

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They are not working in terms of preventing reinfection or preventing transmission which makes a mockery of every country’s obsession with introducing “health passports” when the double vaccinated can still infect others and can still be reinfected…(Note I am not one of those currently and under present circumstances trying to go on holiday)

This means that some more vulnerable double vaccinated people are likely to get it again and in that instance I am just saying that there are tried and tested repurposed drugs that may help them along with sufferers of long covid and the injured which continue to mount every day…

(There is not much I can say to people who have died after the vaccines except to hold them in my heart and seek justice although justice for both the dead and the injured seems a long way off especially for Pfizer recipients when looking at the contract…)

“Ehdan Biber, an information-security expert, discovered a Pfizer confidential government contract on an Albanian website that is so heavily biased that it literally converts governments into agents of Pfizer.

Biber wrote that Ivermectin, an anti-parasite medicine that has been used successfully in several countries against COVID, was suppressed because the Pfizer contract requires that, even if a drug is found to treat COVID-19 effectively, the contract to continue buying products from Pfizer cannot be voided.

The contract requires governments to commit to paying for the products even if they are not shipped on time, and no products may be returned.

Governments must acknowledge that the effectiveness and potential adverse effects and injuries are unknown.

The contract is written to supersede any local law of the state. It stipulates that the “‘Purchaser (meaning the government) hereby agrees to indemnify, DEFEND AND HOLD HARMLESS Pfizer, BioNTech (and) their Affiliates…from and against any and all suits, claims, actions, demands, losses, damages, liabilities, settlements, penalties, fines, costs and expenses…’

The contract says that there is no limit to the immunity from prosecution bestowed upon Pfizer even if the company commits fraud.

Finally, if the purchasing government fails to enforce these defenses on behalf of Pfizer, a court in New York has the authority and capacity to take the physical assets of that country and transfer them to Pfizer.

One of the most stunning clauses stipulates: “If there are any laws or regulations in your country under which Pfizer could be prosecuted, you agree to CHANGE THE LAW OR REGULATION to close that off.”

Once again, you’ve made a statement that is simply not true Helen. The vaccines do prevent reinfection and transmission, just not 100%.

And what will you say to the families of those that refused the vaccine and are now grieving?

Your continued focus on the tiny number of people who have died from the side effects of the vaccines whilst refusing to even acknowledge that the vaccines could have saved countless more lives is extraordinary (I could have easily have used any number of different words but that would have led to this post being removed).

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So even at 80% we will never reach “herd immunity” with the current strategy…it’s theoretically and mathematically impossible and is causing untold harm…

Even if 100% of the global population were double vaccinated with the current vaccines which aren’t vaccines it’s unachievable…they got the EUA on a vaccine checklist when they are not vaccines but gene therapies…they would never have even got an EUA had they been subject to the gene therapy regulations…

We are all still in a global clinical trial…some may be okay with that…many of us aren’t…

The trial on pregnant women has only just begun in July as have the trials in children recruitment just starting now down to the age of 6 months…(I read that recruitment in Poland is from polish orphanages…completely unsubstantiated at the minute but is something I will watch and will come back here to say it’s unsubstantiated if it proves not to be the case)

Do you believe everything that Boris Johnson says?
Achieving ‘herd immunity’ with a mutating is impossible, but that does not mean that vaccination is not better than dying of Covid.

I don’t believe anything Johnson says…I’ve never been a conservative…it’s just another illustration of the political divide infecting serious scientific discussion…

I have seen some of your serious scientific discussion!

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https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid-mrna-gene-idUSL1N2PH16N

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“some” should be replaced with the vast majority and “many” should be replaced with a tiny minority.

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Who said that was the aim?

One of the biggest issues for me about those who refuse to have the vaccine (on principle rather than any medical reason) is that they will fully expect the health services to treat them should they contract Covid and end up in hospital.

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Yes I know and it has been bought up before…I don’t think there are many “refusing on principle rather than medical reason”…they are refusing because of the lack of transparency and the authoritarian messaging and government coercion…

The more government force is applied then the more both sides or all sides and all races will come together…

Just look at the marches in France both vaccinated and unvaccinated all races…they are also global and more planned…

Maybe a blood test capable of picking up all aspects of the immune system should be made widely available so those of us who had covid late 2019 and early 2020 can prove immunity without being subjected to a “vaccine” which will provide no additional benefit…???

WRONG

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