Thunberg, anyone?

I’m glad to see GT is upsetting The Powerful.
One of the biggest tragedies of our time appears to be that
money/wealth = power, and really very, very stupid people can get to be grossly, immensely wealthy by accident. or just sticking with any one of the get-rich-kwik $30 online courses.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daviddawkins/2019/09/26/billionaire-lvmh-chief-bernard-arnault-slams-greta-thunberg-for-demoralizing-young-people/#70ce6460530f

I’m not making any conclusive decisions about The Last Days/climate change/The Rapture, etc. My knowledge is sparse on pretty much everything, One day I might google something like… “Has Science Made Any Serious Mistakes and What are they in order of Seriousness” or similar. I rely very heavily on “science” but recognise as its latest branch and least effective, so far is Brain Science? I guess that might be an error, but it suggests, reasonably…“we don’t really know, what we know”.

I do remember being convinced of earth warming/destruction of life on earth, back in 82/83? Listening to a speech by Frank Kearton who began his career as a chemical process worker at ICI in 1933. As a young chemical engineer he was recruited into Britain’s wartime Atomic Energy Project. Nobody else seemed to pay the smallest attention when he said it was already too late to save the planet, and at the time, that was a shocking, terrifying, very new idea.
I got over the shock and I am comfortable with the idea that a few people who learn how to live close and in tune with …what seems to me to be…a precious and beautiful Planet to live on…might find their own small corner and survive there.
So here am l, with my rocket stove, and weed/bean cooking. I think if anyone can change anything, it will be a clear eyed, healthy living 16 year old, who looks not a day over 12 and a half. (Are we sure she is 16?)

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Thinking about the impact of extremes of AGE in influencing destiny…two things…
Can anyone tell me the name of the Child actor? Infant prodigy…? I think in a Charles Dickens story.
Guessed, by the main character, to be considerably older than her promoted age , but kept small by being reared on nothing but gin and water?
Second, thinking…some kind of very aged frail person might have as powerful effect, as GT?
Oldness is wasted, its potential not capitalised. Just one old gent, of 105? Running the London Marathon doesn’t count.
Almost all human ‘frailty’, of every kind, it must be time to come out of the closet, promote a good cause, without self reference.
No “look at me, I’m 99 and still doing it” whatever it is.

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I think this is the only site I know where someone has a graph for pretty much everything

This is the article to which I referred:
“To all the school kids going on ‘strike’ for Climate Change:
You are the first generation who have required air-conditioning in every classroom.
You want TV in every room and your classes are all computerised.
You spend all day and night on electronic devices.
More than ever, you don’t walk or ride bikes to school but arrive in caravans of private cars that choke local roads and worsen rush hour traffic.
You are the biggest consumers of manufactured goods ever and update perfectly good expensive luxury items to stay trendy,
Your entertainment comes from electric devices.
Furthermore, the people driving your protests are the same people who insist on artificially inflating the population growth through immigration, which increases the need for energy, manufacturing and transport.
The more people we have, the more forest and bushland we clear and more of the environment is destroyed.
How about this…
Tell your teachers to switch off the air-con.
Walk or ride to school. Switch off your devices and read a book.
Make a sandwich instead of buying manufactured fast food.
No, none of this will happen because you are selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little ‘princesses’, inspired by the adults around you who crave a feeling of having a ‘noble cause’ while they indulge themselves in Western luxury and unprecedented quality of life.
Wake up, grow up and learn to research facts and think for yourself and not blindly accept the words and thoughts of others - I don’t think you formulated this action plan all by your self - suspect you may have had some influence and ‘guidance’ from those you trust …a word of warning, be cautious of the influence of the ‘left’ because there may be a time in the future that you will be the ones left out…”.

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An interesting and powerful polemic that has the ring of truth about it IMO. But the kids are very susceptible to influence qua kids and can’t fairly be held responsible for their conditioning to rampant and incontinent consumerism, and a life of pampered physical ease (but deforming mental pressure to ‘achieve’).

But a trenchant argument all the same.

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@rolyat @Peter_Goble

Jeepers creepers. We have already debunked this argument in different threads. How very convenient to put it all on the younger generation.

"No, none of this will happen because you are selfish, badly educated, virtue signalling little ‘princesses’ " where is this from, The Mail? It is just palpable nonsense.

How about looking at how parents are bringing up their kids. Too much time spent on screens?
… (let’s face it we are all at it) social media is designed by the best and brightest minds to be more addictive than smoking.

The only way to sort this mess out is through governmental regulation. Yes we also need individual action (adults and kids) but top down regulation is crucial. Take the fashion industry for example. It burns through an incredible amount of resources. The industry itself has asked to be regulated. Instead May’s government opted not to. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessoffashion.com/amp/articles/news-bites/uk-rebuffs-proposals-for-tougher-regulation-of-the-fashion-industry

In case you haven’t noticed we are in a climate emergency (I am not being alarmist) and expecting all the kids to be well behaved whilst the ‘grown-ups’ keep trashing the place is utterly disingenuous and frankly criminal.

Voila. That’s all I have to say on the matter.

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…we are in a climate emergency…
We’ve been in a climate emergency, for more than x decades…
WE…and “we” is the world’s least attractive word, get distracted, very easily by trivia and tripe.
Not I, compulsively, mentally, prepared for every level of worst case scenario, since I was about 3.,…when it was clear, then, nobody had any clues how to be safe, not even down a hole in the ground.
I don’t mind. Of course the world, and all life on it must meet a sticky end sooner or later. Of course.
Its MY world, I know it very well, love it with all my heart, and accept, gladly, that it can’t be that ghasply fairytale place, with gnomes, fairies or hierarchies of angels, (we had to learn that stuff) taking care of everything, making it all come out OK.
No one should be encouraging kids to think differently. Just lies.

37 years ago, before I had children the 20 month old baby opposite died of meningitis 4 days after the gp told the parents he had a cold.
There was obviously no vaccine for my two but if there had been I would have had them vaccinated asap.
I think if I had young children now I would probably pay to stagger the vaccines slightly.
I would certainly have the Dtap.
I am absolutely pro vaccine but 9 in one go seems a bit much.

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Tripe. Do you know many children? Have you been in a classroom recently? Because you won’t find a tv in many children’s bedrooms and you certainly won’t find air-conditioning in classrooms, at least not here in France.

This is a nasty little homily and oh look

This smells of xenophobic gammon to me.

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Porcophobe? Good Lard!

What did little piggies do to attract such oppobrium? :thinking:

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Tss tss Peter gammon is the term for right-wing ideologues as you are probably well aware :grin:

Gammon is a pejorative term popularised in British political culture since around 2012, which received press coverage in 2018. In 2018, it became particularly known as a term to describe working class middle-aged or older men on the political right or who supported Brexit.[1][2][3] The term refers to someone excitedly and wildly expressing a point with minimal detail, much bluster while exposing their ignorance on the subject under discussion.[4]

Re: “Tss Tss Peter” @vero I am nonplussed to learn that gammon had those associations, but I would think more than twice or thrice before questioning your sources on anything, so l am grateful for your crackling correction.

I spoke rasherly, reacted ham-fistedly, and made a total pig’s ear of my observations.
:star_struck:

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You seem to have taken the contents of the article I reproduced for Dizzy as my own personal opinion; she wrote about a programme she’d seen on the topic and I told her I’d read an article.
I don’t understand why you attack me…well, I do actually; it’s because you didn’t read the first bit of what I wrote. So I’m not really inclined to answer what I infer as rather snippy (to use a popular word) questions but, hey, why not: yes, I know many children; yes, I have been in a classroom recently. OK?

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Here? Did they conform to the description of them? Was there air-conditioning in the classroom?

Again, part of the same article; take your complaint to its author, please, rather than alerting readers of this esteemed group to the non-fact that I wrote it.

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Answers in order: yes; which description? Yes.

Let me know exactly where you saw the air-conditioning in class in metropolitan France, my boss (Jean-Michel Blanquer) will be interested.

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Sorry - this is a long post by Great Thunberg from February 2nd.
Worth reading though to get into her mindset.

Recently I’ve seen many rumors circulating about me and enormous amounts of hate. This is no surprise to me. I know that since most people are not aware of the full meaning of the climate crisis (which is understandable since it has never been treated as a crisis) a school strike for the climate would seem very strange to people in general.
So let me make some things clear about my school strike.

In may 2018 I was one of the winners in a writing competition about the environment held by Svenska Dagbladet, a Swedish newspaper. I got my article published and some people contacted me, among others was Bo Thorén from Fossil Free Dalsland. He had some kind of group with people, especially youth, who wanted to do something about the climate crisis.
I had a few phone meetings with other activists. The purpose was to come up with ideas of new projects that would bring attention to the climate crisis. Bo had a few ideas of things we could do. Everything from marches to a loose idea of some kind of a school strike (that school children would do something on the schoolyards or in the classrooms). That idea was inspired by the Parkland Students, who had refused to go to school after the school shootings.
I liked the idea of a school strike. So I developed that idea and tried to get the other young people to join me, but no one was really interested. They thought that a Swedish version of the Zero Hour march was going to have a bigger impact. So I went on planning the school strike all by myself and after that I didn’t participate in any more meetings.

When I told my parents about my plans they weren’t very fond of it. They did not support the idea of school striking and they said that if I were to do this I would have to do it completely by myself and with no support from them.
On the 20 of august I sat down outside the Swedish Parliament. I handed out fliers with a long list of facts about the climate crisis and explanations on why I was striking. The first thing I did was to post on Twitter and Instagram what I was doing and it soon went viral. Then journalists and newspapers started to come. A Swedish entrepreneur and business man active in the climate movement, Ingmar Rentzhog, was among the first to arrive. He spoke with me and took pictures that he posted on Facebook. That was the first time I had ever met or spoken with him. I had not communicated or encountered with him ever before.

Many people love to spread rumors saying that I have people ”behind me” or that I’m being ”paid” or ”used” to do what I’m doing. But there is no one ”behind” me except for myself. My parents were as far from climate activists as possible before I made them aware of the situation.
I am not part of any organization. I sometimes support and cooperate with several NGOs that work with the climate and environment. But I am absolutely independent and I only represent myself. And I do what I do completely for free, I have not received any money or any promise of future payments in any form at all. And nor has anyone linked to me or my family done so.
And of course it will stay this way. I have not met one single climate activist who is fighting for the climate for money. That idea is completely absurd.
Furthermore I only travel with permission from my school and my parents pay for tickets and accommodations.

My family has written a book together about our family and how me and my sister Beata have influenced my parents way of thinking and seeing the world, especially when it comes to the climate. And about our diagnoses.
That book was due to be released in May. But since there was a major disagreement with the book company, we ended up changing to a new publisher and so the book was released in august instead.
Before the book was released my parents made it clear that their possible profits from the book ”Scener ur hjärtat” will be going to 8 different charities working with environment, children with diagnoses and animal rights.

And yes, I write my own speeches. But since I know that what I say is going to reach many, many people I often ask for input. I also have a few scientists that I frequently ask for help on how to express certain complicated matters. I want everything to be absolutely correct so that I don’t spread incorrect facts, or things that can be misunderstood.

Some people mock me for my diagnosis. But Asperger is not a disease, it’s a gift. People also say that since I have Asperger I couldn’t possibly have put myself in this position. But that’s exactly why I did this. Because if I would have been ”normal” and social I would have organized myself in an organisation, or started an organisation by myself. But since I am not that good at socializing I did this instead. I was so frustrated that nothing was being done about the climate crisis and I felt like I had to do something, anything. And sometimes NOT doing things - like just sitting down outside the parliament - speaks much louder than doing things. Just like a whisper sometimes is louder than shouting.

Also there is one complaint that I ”sound and write like an adult”. And to that I can only say; don’t you think that a 16-year old can speak for herself? There’s also some people who say that I oversimplify things. For example when I say that "the climate crisis is a black and white issue”, ”we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases” and ”I want you to panic”. But that I only say because it’s true. Yes, the climate crisis is the most complex issue that we have ever faced and it’s going to take everything from our part to ”stop it”. But the solution is black and white; we need to stop the emissions of greenhouse gases.
Because either we limit the warming to 1,5 degrees C over pre industrial levels, or we don’t. Either we reach a tipping point where we start a chain reaction with events way beyond human control, or we don’t. Either we go on as a civilization, or we don’t. There are no gray areas when it comes to survival.
And when I say that I want you to panic I mean that we need to treat the crisis as a crisis. When your house is on fire you don’t sit down and talk about how nice you can rebuild it once you put out the fire. If your house is on fire you run outside and make sure that everyone is out while you call the fire department. That requires some level of panic.

There is one other argument that I can’t do anything about. And that is the fact that I’m ”just a child and we shouldn’t be listening to children.” But that is easily fixed - just start to listen to the rock solid science instead. Because if everyone listened to the scientists and the facts that I constantly refer to - then no one would have to listen to me or any of the other hundreds of thousands of school children on strike for the climate across the world. Then we could all go back to school.
I am just a messenger, and yet I get all this hate. I am not saying anything new, I am just saying what scientists have repeatedly said for decades. And I agree with you, I’m too young to do this. We children shouldn’t have to do this. But since almost no one is doing anything, and our very future is at risk, we feel like we have to continue.

And if you have any other concern or doubt about me, then you can listen to my TED talk ( https://www.ted.com/…/greta_thunberg_the_disarming_…/up-next ), in which I talk about how my interest for the climate and environment began.

And thank you everyone for you kind support! It brings me hope.
/Greta
Ps I was briefly a youth advisor for the board of the non profit foundation “We don’t have time”. It turns out they used my name as part of another branch of their organisation that is a start up business. They have admitted clearly that they did so without the knowledge of me or my family. I no longer have any connection to “We don’t have time”. Nor has anyone in my family. They have deeply apologised and I have accepted their apology.

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Thanks Bettina, that’s just great. She is formidable.

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Nor in the UK.

Nor, I suspect, in 99.9% of classrooms around the world.

The southern US, possibly, but in those climates it is easier to argue that a temperate classroom environment is better for learning.

Most of rolyat’s diatribe seems to be ranting against he fact that the modern world, and the expectations of those live in it , have changed since he was a kid. We have to accept the fact that the younger generation have grown up with the internet and 1000’s of TV channels and view those things as normal, essential even.

The rest should properly be directed against the parents of today’s schoolchildren who shape their kids’ expectations.

Finally the “artificially inflating the population growth through immigration” was racism pure and simple and was not acceptable.

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