Why we must support Brexit


(Helen Rees) #103

I literally do. I live up here in Westeros, I mean, Speyside :smiley:


(Richard Perou) #104

Nope, no apologises. You chose to engage in a discussion which included the reduction in space available to the natives and you must accept what is said on the matter. I did not accuse you of being xenophobe but of the whole of the UK indulging itself in an orgy of xenophobia.
There is no good reason for the UK (at least none that I have been given) to leave the EU and to try to wreck my life, even to the extent that I read today "https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/18/british-expats-face-cliff-edge-in-pensions-and-insurance-after-brexit"
I will no longer play pat a cake with those who wish me ill and I intend to call a spade a 'bloody shovel’
If you support Brexit, then you are not my friend! Take exception.


(Elaine Hayden) #105

Who needs enemies when there are so many Brits ready to publicly bash their own country, ridicule its people, mock it’s democracy, it’s very thoughtwaves and existence! Yes, the UK is far from perfect but is any country perfect and Europe certainly isn’t? BUT please, the amount of vitreol shown on here towards the UK is shocking. The knives are out and it’s so sad that those so ready to strike the first blow are Brits abroad.


(David Martin) #106

I lived in both West and East Sussex in the 1980s and they were overcrowded then and they are worse now. Yes, there is countryside and the Downs are beautiful but if you live or work in the populated parts there’s no escaping crowds. The whole coastline from west of Bognor Regis to east of Brighton is one massive built up area served by a road system creaking at the seams. Where I lived in East Sussex it was beautiful but so, so, so expensive and the village I lived in lacked any sort of community feeling. Most of the houses were constantly for sale as their owners were keen to profit from their investment rather than put down roots. The village pub was busy for a couple if hours when the commuters got off the London train and downed a couple of shorts before returning home. I was glad to escape and enjoy the open spaces and peace and quiet of mainland Europe. The overpopulation problems I saw in Britain had nothing to do with foreigners, they were all to do with home grown talent striving to keep up with, or better still put one over, their neighbours.


(Robert Hodge) #107

Sir,
You may choose to disbelieve the figures if you wish, but that does not alter the fact that the population density of the UK is more than two and a half times that of France, and that of the western european countries, only Belgium and Holland are more densely populated than the UK.
Additionally, I would point out that I am not blaming foreigners as you seem to be suggesting. I have not been referring to foreigners in my comments in any way, as you will see if you care to re-read my posts.
I shall be obliged if you will refrain from attributing to me things which I quite purposefully did not write.


(stella wood) #108

Richard… you do not know whether or not I support Brexit … I have never been drawn to answer.

I note that you will not apologize… ah well… it was a long-shot anyway. However, it would seem I am not the only one about whom you are making incorrect judgements and sweeping statements…

Please keep your posts impersonal in future…


(Jonathan Badger) #109

The overcrowding of anywhere in the developed world cannot be blamed on immigration. In the modern age we have all been sold on having homes which house every conceivable kind of appliance, have multiple facilities (WCs, bathrooms) & individual rooms for all who wish to have them. There is also a rise in split households where children have to have bedrooms in both parents’ separate houses. It is also quite common for people to have holiday/weekend homes away from the cities.

Given all the above plus the general increase in population due to modern health care it is no surprise that centres of population have spread, spread, & spread some more. We are not prepared to live in crowded hovels as our predecessors did. Opposing the building of new & energy efficient housing is the worst kind of NIMBYism (on a par with opposing wind turbines), though I do believe that planning rules should ensure that bigger & less dense housing is encouraged, rather than the rank profiteering of building too many tiny houses just because they can.

The land/space is there in the UK but both green & brownfield sites need to be handled properly.


(Ronald Fox) #110

I replied on this thread for this very reason, that it irks me greatly that people leave the UK and then run it down. As you say, sure it has its problems, but I do not recognise the country some of you describe. Incidentally, I would prefer to remain in the EU.


(Mark Rimmer) #111

Richard & Elaine, I am actually a remainer & posted this subject to make a point. I feel that those who voted for brexit (& against it) have been seriously misled by those in power. Neither side can really come up with facts so have tended to create some. This £350 million figure - does it take into account EU grants given back to the UK? Subsidies on some imports? The fact that all EU imports to the UK are not subject to import duty? EU sponsorship of museums, sports programmes, industry, education, transport etc? Revenue from foreign students, EU workers paying tax etc? We do not know!
Ronald, I might have been born in the UK but that was many years ago & an accident of birth does not make blind loyalty obligatory.
My post makes it clear that I am not a UK resident. I have not been so for some years. My move to France was not made as a retirement act, it is because the UK had nothing that I wanted. In fact, I was made to feel quite uncomfortable. Is it really a surprise that someone who has chosen to live abroad has done so because they feel that the UK is no longer somewhere they would want to live? If I felt the UK was so wonderful I would not have taken the considerable risk of moving here & starting life from scratch. I left because the UK is sh*t & the reasons I think that way are listed in my OP.
I see the word “Xenophobe” being bandied about in some replies. The word means “a deep rooted fear of foreigners”. The ex-pat residents on this site must have a laugh at this as most of us are surrounded by them.
This evening I dined with friends, some english, some french, some living here & some just visiting. We discussed Brexit, of course & some were for, some against. We arrived as friends & departed as such. The man whose views clashed most with mine was the man who gave me a lift home. Tomorrow I will either help him repair the alternator on his car or I will beat him to death with a baseball bat, I haven’t yet decided. (Of course I will help him with his car - just because his views do not mirror mine does not make him wrong, just interesting).


(Jonathan Badger) #112

Regarding the contributions to the EU this site is level headed (& written well before the Boris DT article).


(Michael Andre Inglehearn) #113

I get very annoyed when I hear people say the majority of the UK voted to leave the EU, it did not, less than 33% voted to leave but brexiteers seem to think all those who did not vote wanted to leave! Many people may have considered the referendum was a vote to leave so not voting did not count towards the leave vote. Many remain voters may also not have bothered voting because on the day ALL the opinion polls forecast a fairly easy win by remain. Many who voted to leave have since realised they were conned by the brexiteers and have changed their opinions. Many who voted for brexit seem to think Asia and Africa are in the EU!
After brexit the UK will no longer be able to (mistakenly) blame everything on EU regulations, and will have to find something else to blame things on.


(Jenifer Armand-Delille) #114

To me, this is a brilliant rant, with which I mostly agree (not British, European!), but I don’t understand where the argument as to why Brexit should be supported comes in. Mark, you explain how Europe would be better off w/out UK, but not the other way around. As a European who sees Europe as a ball and chain, I think you’re blessed and smart to have cut your ties. It’s not going well for any nation in Europe, with the possible exception of Germany.


(Peter Juselius) #116

And here’s a business-side article worth reading: https://www.ft.com/content/202a60c0-cfd8-11e5-831d-09f7778e7377


(stella wood) #117

interesting reading… agree or not… up to each and everyone…


(David Martin) #118

That’s what Mark means. He considers himself to be a European and now believes that the sooner the EU is rid of Britain the better. There are many countries within the EU who would have been in serious trouble without their membership. Germany is not one of them and luckily they believe enough in the system to lead from the front. A situation Britain had the opportunity to do as well but as a nation they are less altruistic.


(Jenifer Armand-Delille) #119

thanks, David. do you mean altruistic? if so, agreed


(David Martin) #120

I did. Thank you. I wasn’t sure about the spelling but my iPad was happy with it.


(Elaine Hayden) #121

Mark, I am not questioning your reason for moving to France. I also moved here many moons ago and like you, not for retirement … I am still working here. With regard to Brexit, I also would have preferred to remain. However, the vote was to leave. I do not agree that those who voted to leave were ALL misled - many knew exactly what they were doing and it was their choice. Only time will tell whether it was the right decision. I get that you have absolutely nothing good to say about the UK, you feel it is ‘sh*t’ in your own words. What I am saying is that I find it sad that those Brits who have made a new life for themselves in Europe (or wherever) feel the need to constantly bash the UK in such a vitriolic manner. There are negatives in every country, as I have said previously, nowhere is perfect but I know no other nationality that takes such pleasure in bashing it’s own people, it’s own country.


(stella wood) #122

Of course, Elaine… I am sure you are really talking about “some of those Brits…feel the need to constantly bash the UK in such a vitriolic manner”

rather than lumping together ALL Brits… who have made a new life for themselves in Europe (or wherever). :relaxed:


(Elaine Hayden) #123

Yes, sorry Stella I didn’t mean for that phrase to be interpreted as ALL Brits who have made a new life for themselves outside the UK (I am one of those myself). It was just aimed at the Brits who feel the need to publicly trash/bash the UK at every opportunity. Sorry if I caused confusion.