Why we must support Brexit


(Mark Rimmer) #124

That’s the thing! I no longer live or have any connection with the UK beyond being born there. I’m not bashing my own people or my own country - I consider France & its people to be that.
It is true that there are negatives in every country - it’s a matter of finding one with fewer negatives for you as an individual.
Spain had to be bailed out by the EU & we are led to believe that it is really struggling. On my visits I see a country with busy shops, a good & cheap public transport system & a happy cafe society population. I’m sure that there are poor areas as there are everywhere but the country in general seems to be prospering.

(Elaine Hayden) #125

Yes, you no longer live there but you are happily thrashing it from a distance saying the EU will be well rid. You are entitled to your opinion but I just feel you really need to live in the country to fully understand what is going on there. I just don’t agree with this constant bashing from afar. Likewise you cannot claim to know what is happening in any one area/region in the UK, they all differ from one another so to slate the whole country or tar it with one brush is wrong. There is a lot of good in the UK so please don’t write it off just yet. I am just sad you hate it so much.

(Mark Rimmer) #126

Hate is too strong a word really, I just do not like the direction things are going! It seems that anyone in power is only interested in keeping that power rather than doing something for the people. The selfishness is not limited to those who are well off. It seems to be endemic to the UK. I do not enjoy feeling this way about the country of my birth but neither can I ignore the situation there. New rules & regulations have to apply nationwide so a daft rule in Manchester is still daft in Surrey. Loyalty is an admirable quality but blind loyalty isn’t.
On a separate issue, what would be the general reaction to someone who protested outside parliament with a banner proclaiming “White Lives Matter”?

(Elaine Hayden) #127

Ha ha, I think they would be arrested Mark (that comment is in relation to your question about a protest stating ‘White Lives Matter’). There are many people in the UK who are angry about the ridiculous situation but they are not allowed a voice as, if they do believe that white lives matter, they are immediately slammed or shut down with the ‘racist’ label. Discussions about the real problems can therefore never take place because people are shut down. I was born on a council estate in the North East of England and moved down to London when I was 10. It was a culture shock I have to say. I went to school in a rough area of the East End and I had never experienced such a diverse community. I had never seen tramps in doorways, meths drinkers on park benches, every colour, culture and nationailty in one place. I found it shocking but also fascinating. We all muddled through together and learned from each other. My husband was born in the East End and grew up there. We took a trip back there last Xmas when visiting our son in London. I have to say it was shocking. The school I went to is now completely muslim. I was the only woman walking down the street without a headscarf. All the cafes and shops we knew were gone, replaced with another culture completely. We sat in a cafe and had a coffee but no one around us was speaking English. We felt like aliens in our own country, in the place in which we grew up. It is quite shocking to see the transformation. That doesn’t make me racist . I have always been proud of our diversity and our tolerance of every other culture. However, I am allowed to be shocked and I am sure if the

(Elaine Hayden) #128

Sorry, I managed to post before I had finished! What I was trying to say is that from region to region people’s experiences can vary drastically. So obviously their experiences will affect the way they think. When some people say immigration is not a problem, maybe they have not lived in an area that has changed beyond recognition simply because of the sheer number of immigrants moving in. The dynamics can change dramatically in these instances and people should be allowed to express their concerns without being slammed as ‘racist’ as some ‘remainers’ claim. This is what I meant by saying you cannot make one single judgement about the whole country as each town or region will have hadvits own reasons for voting either ‘remain’ or ‘leave’ and we should respect that. My loyalty is not blind Mark, I have my reasons and I do believe there is still a lot of good in the UK so I am not ready to turn my back on my country of birth.

(stella wood) #129


I know many French folk who abhor the fact that some towns/villages in France are populated by more Non-French than French… as they feel this has resulted in the “French way of life” in such places, being changed by the incomers.

On the other hand, they do openly admit the good that many of the incomers do … renovating/rejuvenating the ruins/dilapidated properties etc. These are ordinary French folk, who are not racist…but who have serious concerns…

Elaine, I think you and I are on the same lines… it must surely be better for folk (of all nations) to be able to discuss things openly, gently, non-aggressively…since bottling up feelings can often lead to trouble… and extremes of behaviour which… (I would have thought) we are all keen to avoid.

(David Martin) #130

In the part of Britain I come from the population voted heavily for Brexit. That’s hard to explain as they are a financially depressed area they benefit hugely from EU grants. There is an underlying fear of immigrants coming over and taking over the local jobs but the real enemy in my eyes are the second home owners, mainly from London and the South East who have pushed house prices out of reach of the majority of the locals.

(Sue Young) #131

And who sells to second home owners? Locals who own the property.If people who are selling really want to sell to locals then they need to do that-at a price that locals can afford. But that would entail turning down higher offers probably. Local owners can’t sell to ‘outsiders’ for high prices and then complain about locals being priced out.

(David Martin) #132

That just doesn’t work on so many levels. Houses will always cost what people are willing to pay.

(Tony PERLA) #133


Brexit is harmful for two reasons. The more prominent of which is economic.

Britain will be facing higher trade tariffs in their major export market, which is the EU. As well, in terms of imports, EU-origin products will be more expensive. The alternative in both case will be a return to the “normal” WTO international trade tariff structure that governs World Trade.

There is no reasoning that would justify any meaningful increase in trade with the EU (the largest whole-economy after the US) after Brexit. And Britain cannot expect the US to offset the loss of EU-trade.

Particularly badly hit will be London’s Financial Center, which (as a part of the EU) is/was highly effective and profitable. British banks are already looking for offices in the EU. Which is unfortunate for most of those who work there, but not for some key-personnel that will move over along with their offices.

Moreover, with lower levels of trade, Brexit could well mean a lowering of the pound vis-a-vis the Euro. This could help British incoming tourism, but Brits will pay more whilst visiting the EU. Lowering the pound generally boosts exports, and could well mean a boon for British exports if the rise in import duties does not cancel that effect. That wager is too close to call presently.

(David Martin) #134

Yes, but we will take back control.

(Peter Juselius) #135

Is this a reason why workers from EU are not welcome? Too expensive?
Is police on top of the situation? https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/20/modern-slavery-misery-uk-exploitation

(Glenn Beavis) #136

No Peter, this is the reason that “businesses” welcome EU ( and non EU) workers with open arms.

Which part of it would be a police matter ?
Holding someone against their will, and forcing sex - the people who run these types of business seem unphased by the threat of legalities. ( and quite often foreign nationals operate these “business”).

(Elaine Hayden) #137

Totally agree Stella. Open discussions where everyone’s concerns can be raised are the only way to find solutions.

(Joy Lang) #138

Maybe they didn’t realise that they were ‘benefitting hugely from EU grants’!
I agree with a previous comment that the ‘benefits’ of remaining in the EU were not highlighted enough prior to the referendum, he and the reasons for leaving were highly publicised.
Now that it is coming to light exactly what may be lost, I feel that many Brexiteers are already regretting their vote. . .

(David Martin) #139

Who knows what they realised but they have more to lose than most.

(Robert Morrison) #140

I’m sorry Stella, but whilst I can see that that things changing can be disturbing ( I sympathise, I frequently return to the UK and often moan about it! ), the idea that the countryside is being covered in concrete to any significant degree is simply untrue. Do you know what percentage of the UK land is actually built on? Less than 2%, yes you read that right, 2%. Have a look at the article below.

I am sure all of us have taken the Eurostar or driven through Kent before, even there, in the south east of England it is all fields. Don’t take my word for it, take a look at some satellite photos or Google earth, see how green the country is. There are huge protections in place to stop people building in the countryside and despite popular perceptions, the UK planning authorities are neither corrupt nor incompetent.

The idea that the UK is being bricked over (or that it is “full up”) has a long and pernicious history that was already in evidence in the c19th, but it has always been a myth. Unfortunately this kind of myth has consequences, this wholly inaccurate perception of “full up” and “over-developed” is ruthlessly exploited by xenophobes and others, with the consequences we are currently living with.

(stella wood) #141

Hi Robert

I am talking about the change to those rural towns and villages that I know extremely well… the change is very marked…I am not exaggerating.

I do not know Kent, so cannot talk about what is or is not going on there.

I have never suggested that UK Planning Authorities are corrupt … but in some instances some may have been incompetent/misled… in my view.

(When I lived in the UK, I had dealings with some excellent Planning Authority folk…and we fought side-by-side and won some great battles.)

(David Martin) #142

VI don’t think you have to look too far to see how Britain is ‘full’ in terms of its infrastructure. Try travelling on the roads in the south east, getting on the waiting list for a routine operation or find a school with decent class sizes just to mention three problem areas.
If Kent has do much avaliable building land why does it appear in the news so frequently every winter when the flooding season begins?

(Peter Juselius) #143