Brexit - Time to Stop Whinging?

I think that there is one area that will change significantly, the ability for Britons to move to Europe and set up as self employed workers. The difference between the rights through FoM and the regulations for third nation immigrants is huge and many of the Brits I met in France followed this path.

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Indeed - I suspect this is one of the things which Brexit will make difficult to the point of impossible in practice.

I find it interesting that no-one has mentioned the impact on Ireland - or maybe in the great scheme of things that doesnā€™t matter? Also Scotland and whether, long term Brexit will lead to the break up of the Union?
Couple of thoughts: I was watching a programme on the BBC about a 1945 documentary by Bernstein on the holocaust and the fact that, at the time, it wasnā€™t released because by 1947, Germany was being rehabilitated as fast as possible. I wonder post-Brexit, how fast Europe will want to ā€œrehabilitateā€ the UK?

Secondly, I think one of the damaging impacts of Brexit is the emotional one. Like the Round-heads and Cavaliers, communities/families/friendships have been divided at bedrock level and that is taking time and will continue to take time to heal.

Maybe not ā€˜whingeingā€™ but I think we need to be engaged to try to avoid the negotiations either resulting in a hard Brexit that will damage the UK, or a no-Deal Brexit that will create profound uncertainty on citizensā€™ rights.

And we need to show the EU negotiating team that there are many British citizens who still want to belong to Europe. Thatā€™s a message that came across very strongly to Ursula v.d. Leyen when she spoke at LSE, and made a point of coming out to meet pro-EU demonstrators.

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Andreaā€¦ I thought there was a Deal, just signedā€¦ ??? so No-Deal does not existā€¦ or have I lost the plotā€¦

Youā€™ve not lost the plot Stella, itā€™s just bloody confusing when it should have been so simple. There is the withdrawal agreement which has been signed and a trade deal that has yet to be negotiated.

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Yes, as Timothy says, there are two agreements. Thereā€™s the WA which covers basics, but then all the specifics of trade agreements, ā€˜how things workā€™, etc has been left undone.

Itā€™s a bit like having a quote to plumb in a bathroom, but not specifying bath, shower, sink, toilet, or any lightingā€¦

Sadly, there is no grey-area. We Brits in France are considered non-european as from 31/01/2020. That is the date that Britain leaves Europeā€¦ whether trade deals and other stuff is agreed at a later date or not :thinking:

At least we are leaving ā€œwith an Agreementā€ which means certain stuff should click into placeā€¦ whereas all we could see on the websites was what was going to happen due to No-agreement.

But, Stella, the ā€˜agreementā€™ only lasts until 31 December 2020, surely? After thatā€¦we are at the mercy of BloJoā„¢ and The Goodfellasā€¦ :thinking::slightly_frowning_face::face_with_head_bandage:

The WA covers the process of leaving.

Part of the WA was an agreement that nothing would change immediately after we left - to allow time to negotiate our future relationship with the EU (some confusion because May bizarrely kept referring to it as the ā€œimplementation periodā€ despite not having negotiated anything to implement).

We now have to negotiate that future relationship with the EU - if we fail to come to an agreement by the end of the transition period then at the end of that there is a fresh opportunity to fall off the end of the cliff and have to trade on WTO terms.

We can extend transition, but only if we do so by the end of June - which Johnson has vowed not to do (and heā€™ll still be telling us thereā€™s loads of time at that point).

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Issues such as freedom of movement for British citizens already resident in the EU could form part of the further agreement, though they are not in the WA. For many of us with clients in other EU countries thatā€™s quite an important issue.

This thread links you to the latest from the French Interior Ministry and tells you what to expect if all goes well on Friday. It was posted on this site several days ago.

Indeed Danā€¦ yet, on the first pageā€¦ it lays out what should happen ā€œIn the event of withdrawal with an agreementā€ā€¦

which means that the site does not, as yet, acknowledge that there is an agreement. which also means we have to consider the alternativeā€¦ which is also listed on that pageā€¦

and, as we are all thinking/sayingā€¦ nothing is clear until it is clearly laid out in words we can all understand without any room for misunderstandingā€¦

I think it will be dealt with in a reciprocal basis, ie if the UK imposes very restrictive conditions on EU citizens who want to work in the UK, then you may find those same conditions being imposed here - with probably a relatively greater unpleasant effect because of the different demographics involved.

I donā€™t trust the current British government to give two hoots for a bunch of non-plutocrat British residents in the EU, I am not personally affected whatever happens but that doesnā€™t stop me being worried about people I knowā€¦

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stella woodsmwTeam

Indeed Danā€¦ yet, on the first pageā€¦ it lays out what should happen ā€œIn the event of withdrawal with an agreementā€ā€¦

which means that the site does not, as yet, acknowledge that there is an agreement. which also means we have to consider the alternativeā€¦ which is also listed on that pageā€¦

and, as we are all thinking/sayingā€¦ nothing is clear until it is clearly laid out in words we can all understand without any room for misunderstandingā€¦

Dan, Iā€™m losing the plotā€¦ or my marbles. As I reported recently, official word is that those who have made an application will be dealt with as speedily as possible once the date of 31/01/2020 is passedā€¦

Bit confused now Stella!

We donā€™t know one another in any real sense of the word ā€˜knowā€™, @vero, but I appreciate very much your generosity of spirit towards those of us, like me, with very weak credentials on internationalism overall, and on France particularly, my preferred locus vivendi mortuisque.

It speaks powerfully and hopefully about the European project of ever closer union too. :hugs::+1:

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Ha ha @Dan_Wood sorry ā€¦ too many Danā€™s ??? not, of course notā€¦ fingers tripping up on the keyboardā€¦

my reply was meant for @anon14704272 ā€¦

Anyway, you can all relaxā€¦ no more keyboard mishaps from me tonight, Iā€™m off out dancing the night awayā€¦ anyone fancy a Mazurka or a BourĆ©e :crazy_face: :hugs: :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

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So what is difrens from all the brits that live and work even retire in countryā€™s outside the eu ?

I was just pointing out there there is a web site that says what to expect if there is an agreement.